NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC Complaint? Waste of time.

[someconsumer]

Is this a new build built by a national housebuilder or by a local developer and did you pay 1 single payment to them?
If so your complaint and retribution is with the company you paid the money to.

It then doesn't matter whether the electrician, landscape gardener or painter missed out the CPC and created the C2's etc it's for the person with whom you had a contract and who received your money, to sort out.

If it went to court you can't pursue the trades as you didn't employ them.

If however it was self build or you paid trades individually then it is your problem to deal with.

Does it have NHBC cover, they're probably just as bad as any other trade organisation but the more bodies involved the better?

Purchased from a new builder (not a national one or self build).

The NICEIC essentially blamed the builder.

4 storey I would expect probably does need fire rated downlights.

Post a redacted copy of the EIC here, we can take a look at it for you

Here's a sample

 

[littlespark]

The only things that stand out on the test sheet are;

Smoke detectors should also be listed at the top as equipment that can be damaged through insulation resistance test.
Max Zs should be listed on every circuit, not just rfc
22 points on a lighting circuit. Counted every single bulb by the looks of it.
Likewise, 18 points on kitchen ring. Must be a big kitchen… I think I’ve only got 8
Two large loads (cooker and oven) next to each other in the board. Thinking heat disapation.
No mention of SPD

Some of the items shown earlier above can be picked up as snagging faults, but it’s the basics such as bonding, appropriate sized mcbs and cables, general workmanship that are indicators of bodgery

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The only things that stand out on the test sheet are;

Smoke detectors should also be listed at the top as equipment that can be damaged through insulation resistance test.
Max Zs should be listed on every circuit, not just rfc
22 points on a lighting circuit. Counted every single bulb by the looks of it.
Likewise, 18 points on kitchen ring. Must be a big kitchen… I think I’ve only got 8
Two large loads (cooker and oven) next to each other in the board. Thinking heat disapation.
No mention of SPD

Some of the items shown earlier above can be picked up as snagging faults, but it’s the basics such as bonding, appropriate sized mcbs and cables, general workmanship that are indicators of bodgery

Looks like he didn't fill in max permitted Zs, and has then put the ring final details in the wrong columns.

I'm actually considering deleting the max permitted zs column from my paperwork, a pointless waste of time IMO, restating what BS7671 says. Number of points served, and type of wiring has already been shown the door.

There's nothing in the paperwork that concerns me, the values all look about right.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Certs are over-complicated imo , a commissioning cert really only needs the actual test results and thats it imo

You can then do a basic fuse board chart with wiring type , fuse type and points served etc

I have always found certs overly fussy and way too over the top

 

[brianmoooore]

1 x C2 and 1 x C1 discovered in the new build my son bought last year (so far).

 

[Midwest]

As @snowhead said, your complaint is with the developer, not the electrical contractor, unless you employed then directly. NHBC will refer you back to the Developer, to correct faults. Have you raised this on your snagging list?

 

[UNG]

I'm actually considering deleting the max permitted zs column from my paperwork, a pointless waste of time IMO, restating what BS7671 says. Number of points served, and type of wiring has already been shown the door.

Given that the max permitted zs column is on the model forms in BS7671complete with a footnote as is the type of wiring why would you delete it, if you take that column out why not take out the maximum disconnection time
You appear to be just making it difficult for someone to review your EICR's IMO while issuing documentation not compliant with BS7671

 

[westward10]

Certification does not have to follow the suggested format in BS7671, Appendix 6 is informative only.

 

[nicebutdim]

You all know my views on new-builds, but sadly this is what to expect these days from many mainstream builders. The problem lies in builders asking electricians (maybe) to first and second fix new builds for a totally unrealistically low price.

Builders are offering rates that these sparks are prepared to accept. The blame lies with the guy who accepts a job they know can not be completed to a satisfactory standard for the agreed price. No spark is forced to accept any job at any rate and, given the recent boom, I can not understand why they would put themselves in such a position - the only conclusion I can arrive at is that they don't care about working to acceptable standards.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Given that the max permitted zs column is on the model forms in BS7671complete with a footnote as is the type of wiring why would you delete it, if you take that column out why not take out the maximum disconnection time
You appear to be just making it difficult for someone to review your EICR's IMO while issuing documentation not compliant with BS7671

I hear what you're saying @UNG , however, these are my arguments against:

Type of wiring hasn't been in the regs for many years, until this latest amendment. Same with number of points served. I have never found myself wishing I had info for either on a cert, the former being obvious to anyone, and the latter is open to interpretation. If you take the definition of 'point' from bs7671, then things such as regular light switches aren't counted.

Max Zs is AFAIK totally dependent on the protective device, and the disconnection time. With these items of data already on the form, there can only be one answer, that taken from BS7671, anyone reviewing the form should IMO check against this, not blindly accept something written by the inspector. I take your point about the footnote, but in 5 years I have never had reason to even consider it.

The above help no one IMO. Including it doesn't help make safe installations, it just wastes my time and diverts my attention from the job in hand.

 

[MG201]

The scams have supported the electrical industries race to the bottom for a number of years now aided and abetted by the training companies and examination bodies add to that the changes made to the Electrotechnical Assessment Specification last year that has done little to improve the situation the industry finds itself in

You have to wonder from what is seen on here what the real world figures are for poor workmanship with regard to installations, EICR's etc and how much goes unnoticed and unreported leaving installations in a potentially dangerous state

Got to remember it’s people like this that promoted the 3 week wonder domestic installer accreditation that allows this type of work to be carried out by qualified people ( with electrical trainee ) same as the CITB AND THE LEVY FOR APPRENTICES AND ALL OTHER ACCREDITED BODIES ITS ALL ABOUT SIGNATURES AND FEES , AND NOT FORGETTING THE LOBBYING FOR NEW REGS SO THAT THE COMPANIES THEY ARE ON CAN SELL NEW HARDWARE EG AFDD’s surge protection metal boards etc etc ( not saying these are not needed but defo not all essential to safety imo )

 

[someconsumer]

Looks like he didn't fill in max permitted Zs, and has then put the ring final details in the wrong columns.

I'm actually considering deleting the max permitted zs column from my paperwork, a pointless waste of time IMO, restating what BS7671 says. Number of points served, and type of wiring has already been shown the door.

There's nothing in the paperwork that concerns me, the values all look about right.

As @snowhead said, your complaint is with the developer, not the electrical contractor, unless you employed then directly. NHBC will refer you back to the Developer, to correct faults. Have you raised this on your snagging list?

Yes.

All communication and reports (snagging and EICR) went to the builder.
One day was spent on remedial electrical work, then no further updates.
Electrics still clearly have issues e.g. intermittent lights.

After three months chasing without success I raised the complaint with the NICEIC.

 

[Midwest]

@someconsumer, you might want to go on this forum on how you deal with snagging and complaints via. Its pretty much a one person forum, and he's not a great lover of new builds, Developers and the NHBC. But, he does know his stuff, on them.

 

[impish15]

@someconsumer what was the outcome of this in the end?

 

[jonezzpeterr]

What is the actual point of the schemes when there's just as many cowboys registered as there is not registered.

 

[DPG]

What is the actual point of the schemes when there's just as many cowboys registered as there is not registered.

Where are those figures from?

 

[brianmoooore]

Where are those figures from?

An unsubstantiated guess I expect, but not wildly out going by my observations over the last few years.

 

[JBW175]

What is the actual point of the schemes when there's just as many cowboys registered as there is not registered.

What a strange 1st post for someone in Texas…

 

[someconsumer]

@someconsumer what was the outcome of this in the end?

The NICEIC have finally agreed there are serious issues but will take no action.

None of the work has been put right and the electrician is free to trade without any repercussions.
This is because the electrician claims he didn't do all the work (some items missing from EIC) or 3rd parties interfered.

NB the NICEIC complaints process excludes missing certificates and they claim the Platinum Promise does not apply because the electrician is still trading.

 

[Initforthemoney]

Do you guys have the same assessor every year?

I had my assessment end of last year and when i had my email booking the date, it had someone who i had never heard of or had before.

I used to be with Elecsa and they were great but this guy was from NIC and was a totally unpleasant individual, even to the point of being the same in front of my customer on the site visit.