Potentially dangerous work?

[Lysworld]

Good evening

I have had some electrical work done by an electrician and wanted to get some professional thoughts. In particular any specific regulations that may be affected.

1. When joining two switches (for 2-way operation) in a kitchen, the electrician joined two cables underneath the floor instead of using a continuous length. This was crimped and wrapped in tape and is was not accessible (kitchen units had to be removed to cut a hatch in the floor to find this out). Further, he had joined a 3 core and earth to a 2 core and earth. He had written strappers on the cable at one end. I was told that for this to 'work' he must have planned on using the earth as a live connector.

2. To supply a 7.4kW hob, the same electrician had put in place 2 cables (2.5mm2) to supply it (he said this would be on its own fuse in the consumer unit - it was never fully connected so I don't know what size fuse he said). I have since been told this should be replaced for a 6mm2 cable to be certified.

3. I have also found that this electrician has also used the brown wire from T&E (i.e., he has stopped a length of the brown cable out of the grey outer casing) to join switches and lights and potentially to sockets (?). I have added two photos. This was noticed as the cables are routed through the basement and thus visible in places. I have attached a photo.

4. The upstairs sockets are on a radial circuit (20A fuse), and has 12 double sockets. It has been suggested that this should be turned into a ring main (additional cable from final socket back to consumer unit?)

I appreciate any comments and any indication of any regulations that are affected by any of this.

Thanks in advance

 

[James]

It looks likely to be non compliant on a number of issues.
only a site survey would bring all the issues in to focus, it looks like there maybe other hidden problems if you are correct in points like the crimped and taped joints.

 

[DPG]

Could you post the certificate (EIC) that you received. Redact any names and addresses.

 

[Lysworld]

Could you post the certificate (EIC) that you received. Redact any names and addresses.

For the first two points I 'dodged a bullet' and that electrician didn't return to finish the work. I am looking for a new electrician to correct it (and anything else).

I will try and find the previous certificate and upload. Points 3 & 4 relate to his previous work when he conducted a re-wire. Should building control have been informed of a full re-wire ?

Thanks

 

[Dartlec]

Good evening

I have had some electrical work done by an electrician and wanted to get some professional thoughts. In particular any specific regulations that may be affected.

1. When joining two switches (for 2-way operation) in a kitchen, the electrician joined two cables underneath the floor instead of using a continuous length. This was crimped and wrapped in tape and is was not accessible (kitchen units had to be removed to cut a hatch in the floor to find this out). Further, he had joined a 3 core and earth to a 2 core and earth. He had written strappers on the cable at one end. I was told that for this to 'work' he must have planned on using the earth as a live connector.

2. To supply a 7.4kW hob, the same electrician had put in place 2 cables (2.5mm2) to supply it (he said this would be on its own fuse in the consumer unit - it was never fully connected so I don't know what size fuse he said). I have since been told this should be replaced for a 6mm2 cable to be certified.

3. I have also found that this electrician has also used the brown wire from T&E (i.e., he has stopped a length of the brown cable out of the grey outer casing) to join switches and lights and potentially to sockets (?). I have added two photos. This was noticed as the cables are routed through the basement and thus visible in places. I have attached a photo.

4. The upstairs sockets are on a radial circuit (20A fuse), and has 12 double sockets. It has been suggested that this should be turned into a ring main (additional cable from final socket back to consumer unit?)

I appreciate any comments and any indication of any regulations that are affected by any of this.

Thanks in advance

It does sound like there may be some issues with 1-3.

Crimping a cable correctly under a floor isn't necessarily outside of the regulations, if covered with the correct heat shrink, and made to be permanent - though use of tape would be incorrect. Joining 3 core and earth to 2 core and earth would be an issue regardless though

Re 3. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the brown wire might be double insulated singles rather than stripped twin and earth - though that might be giving too much benefit of the doubt.

However, with 4. a Radial circuit on a 20A MCB isd likely to be fine and compliant for 12 double sockets upstairs, unless your house is very large, or there will be known heavy loads on the circuit (such as wall heaters, etc). There would likely be no benefit to upgrading to a 'ring main' given that most things that are plugged in these days are low power.

Having said that, if the cable is running through a lot of insulation, it's possible that the current carrying capacity of 2.5mm would be reduced below the 20A required for it to be on the MCB. That's not something that can easily be determined without an on site survey or further information. It's probably a minor issue compared to the others though.

Would be interested in knowing what certification was given, as that is usually a key sign whether corners are being cut or not.

 

[Dartlec]

For the first two points I 'dodged a bullet' and that electrician didn't return to finish the work. I am looking for a new electrician to correct it (and anything else).

I will try and find the previous certificate and upload. Points 3 & 4 relate to his previous work when he conducted a re-wire. Should building control have been informed of a full re-wire ?

Thanks

Building Control should have been notified (under the Part P scheme) of any new circuits and any replacement of a consumer unit, as well as any alterations in a 'special location' (bathrooms basically, unless you are lucky enough to have a swimming pool or sauna)

You can check whether anything was notified via - NICEIC Online Certification - http://www.checkmynotification.com (Not sure if this covers all the schemes, though it covers the two largest) though you should also have received a certificate from the scheme provider at the time to notify you that it was made.

 

[Lysworld]

For the first two points I 'dodged a bullet' and that electrician didn't return to finish the work. I am looking for a new electrician to correct it (and anything else).

I will try and find the previous certificate and upload. Points 3 & 4 relate to his previous work when he conducted a re-wire. Should building control have been informed of a full re-wire ?

Thanks

Certificate pages attached

 

[Lysworld]

It does sound like there may be some issues with 1-3.

Crimping a cable correctly under a floor isn't necessarily outside of the regulations, if covered with the correct heat shrink, and made to be permanent - though use of tape would be incorrect. Joining 3 core and earth to 2 core and earth would be an issue regardless though

Re 3. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the brown wire might be double insulated singles rather than stripped twin and earth - though that might be giving too much benefit of the doubt.

However, with 4. a Radial circuit on a 20A MCB isd likely to be fine and compliant for 12 double sockets upstairs, unless your house is very large, or there will be known heavy loads on the circuit (such as wall heaters, etc). There would likely be no benefit to upgrading to a 'ring main' given that most things that are plugged in these days are low power.

Having said that, if the cable is running through a lot of insulation, it's possible that the current carrying capacity of 2.5mm would be reduced below the 20A required for it to be on the MCB. That's not something that can easily be determined without an on site survey or further information. It's probably a minor issue compared to the others though.

Would be interested in knowing what certification was given, as that is usually a key sign whether corners are being cut or not.

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

I have uploaded some screenshots to a reply above for the certificate covering points 3 & 4.

 

[Lysworld]

Building Control should have been notified (under the Part P scheme) of any new circuits and any replacement of a consumer unit, as well as any alterations in a 'special location' (bathrooms basically, unless you are lucky enough to have a swimming pool or sauna)

You can check whether anything was notified via - NICEIC Online Certification - http://www.checkmynotification.com (Not sure if this covers all the schemes, though it covers the two largest) though you should also have received a certificate from the scheme provider at the time to notify you that it was made.

Hi. I received nothing other than a certificate from the electrician. I asked building control (when I had an extension built) if they had any record of work and they said not.

 

[Dartlec]

Certificate pages attached

Was there a schedule of test results (usually the last page or last but one if you include the 'info sheet') as that would show the circuits that were installed/worked on.

The fact that you have a certificate at all is a step above the most dodgy installers, so that is a potentially good sign.

There are a couple of simple errors in the certificate pages you've posted, though more down to carelessness than install errors. The basics look OK in terms of figures, and suggest some testing was carried out at least

Unfortunately, it's hard to know how accurately a certificate shows the work carried out of course without being able to visually see and compare.

In terms of regulations, the only binding legal requirements are the Building Regulations, (part P for Electrical, though there is some cross over). Doing any of this work without notifying is technically an offence, but unfortunately it is rarely if ever monitored properly or enforced.

If the electrician is/was part of a scheme (NICEIC, ELECSA), then you may have some recourse by contacting them as they would be able to force him to meet his obligations with notification.

You may well be better finding a local electrician whom you can trust to do an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) on the existing installation which should be able to properly check anything you are concerned about and flag up any errors that need correction.

The 2 x 2.5mm to the hob sounds like the most egregious issue, though if the earth is being used in a 2 way lighting circuit that would be a close second..

Hopefully if this was done recently then you have RCD protection on everything - have there been many nuisance trips on work that was completed?