It's getting worse

[GMES]

Leytonstone stabbing: Man 'screams this is for Syria' after horror attack in Tube station - Mirror Online

So how long until every police officer needs to be armed with deadly weapons ( Guns ) the officer in the video tasers the terrorist with little effect.
If we are going to expect the police to protect us in the fight against terrorism then surely they need the equipment to do so and also on a similar note I can see everyday civilians starting to Arm themselves very soon if things escalate with local random attcks like this.

What are your thoughts is it time to arm every officer in the uk,because while I don't want to end up like America and therir gun laws I also think it is unrealistic to send a police officer with a taser to face a terrorist with either a gun or an explosive device. please discuss;

 

[sean_ork]

Typical over reaction - there's dozens of stabbings all over the Country everyday, there's 100s of 1000s of disaffected folks suffering in deprived areas who can't see any way out of the pit of poverty our Governments have thrown them into - Syria is just a timely convenient focal point for their anger.

I don't see calls for all police to be armed due to the decades of domestic "incidents" with kitchen implements, or as a result of gang related slashings - yet now that a dark skinned chap has jumped on the Syrian bandwagon .......

 

[Pete999]

Leytonstone stabbing: Man 'screams this is for Syria' after horror attack in Tube station - Mirror Online

So how long until every police officer needs to be armed with deadly weapons ( Guns ) the officer in the video tasers the terrorist with little effect.
If we are going to expect the police to protect us in the fight against terrorism then surely they need the equipment to do so and also on a similar note I can see everyday civilians starting to Arm themselves very soon if things escalate with local random attcks like this.

What are your thoughts is it time to arm every officer in the uk,because while I don't want to end up like America and therir gun laws I also think it is unrealistic to send a police officer with a taser to face a terrorist with either a gun or an explosive device. please discuss;

Wholeheartedly agree with you

 

[GMES]

Sean the difference is that a lot of the time you could talk and armed man down but not quite as easy with a radicalised terrorist, there is no bargaining with them when in their eyes they think they are going to paradise. You are entitled to your views as am I. But I think it is a bit naive to think this isn't going to get worse.

 

[Octopus]

Far more people die every day as the result of vehicle accidents!

 

[GMES]

Yeah but Clive surely I'm not the only one that can see it is about to get a whole lot worse, with attacks in the uk, Also cars, kitchen implements and local gangs don't kill 140+ innocent people in paris or walk into a tube station and either stab or blow up a train full of innocent civilians.

 

[Octopus]

Yeah but Clive surely I'm not the only one that can see it is about to get a whole lot worse, with attacks in the uk, Also cars, kitchen implements and local gangs don't kill 140+ innocent people in paris or walk into a tube station and either stab or blow up a train full of innocent civilians.

My response was a bit tongue in cheek.

Problem is that these morons are not in uniform, so how the "rest of the world" are supposed to deal with them is beyond me. This issue goes back to the exploding population, health improvements and no prospects in numerous countries - so there are countless numbers of young people with little or nothing to do.....

 

[Pete999]

Many of these radicals see western Europe as an easy touch to reek their evil trade, to counter this evil we, that is western Europe and that includes the UK, need to Police with vigor, and give the police on the front line the right tools for the job, the days of PC 49 are gone, the sooner we arm our beat bobbies and give them the backing they deserve the better, in my opinion.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Glen unfortunately it is something that is more and more likely to happen. Less than 5 yrs ago you would never have seen police in a station with weapons, now at most main line stations in London they are quite prevalent.

I think within the next 2 yrs most squad cars will have firearms in them, if not already.

 

[sean_ork]

Plod can't control the panda cars they got, they can't resist turning them into lethal missiles while chasing kids on scooters - thinking they should now be armed is naive, reckless scaremongering and in this situation it smacks of something far worse than a fear of knife crime.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Plod can't control the panda cars they got, they can't resist turning them into lethal missiles while chasing kids on scooters - thinking they should now be armed is naive, reckless scaremongering and in this situation it smacks of something far worse than a fear of knife crime.

Hello Sean you back again son ................must be a slow day in there for you

 

[GMES]

So sean how are we going to stop terrorist who walk into shopping complex over xmas armed with weapons are you going to go in and stop them!!!
Whether you like them or not the police force is our first line of defense in the uk, would you be happy to let them walk into a situation un armed and un prepared.

I don't like to even think of this scenario but for a moment imagine if this does escalate and one day you are sat in your local restaurant when an handful of terrorists walk in with guns and start shooting at you and other diners are you telling me that the 1st number you think of dialling isn't 999. Now this may sound far fetched at the moment but those poor victims in Paris probably didn't expect what happened to them either.
It is Time people woke up and realised what is just around the corner.

 

[Darkwood]

Plod can't control the panda cars they got, they can't resist turning them into lethal missiles while chasing kids on scooters - thinking they should now be armed is naive, reckless scaremongering and in this situation it smacks of something far worse than a fear of knife crime.

You seem to have some kind of axe to grind with our police force here and our government, I'm not saying what you post is right or wrong but you accuse members of scaremongering then say the plod can't resist turning their cars into lethal missiles - now are we catagorising our whole force as been inept and dangerous psychco's unable to take on the responsibility here - surely not as that would amount to scaremongering, would it not?

 

[Pete999]

So sean how are we going to stop terrorist who walk into shopping complex over xmas armed with weapons are you going to go in and stop them!!!
Whether you like them or not the police force is our first line of defense in the uk, would you be happy to let them walk into a situation un armed and un prepared.

I don't like to even think of this scenario but for a moment imagine if this does escalate and one day you are sat in your local restaurant when an handful of terrorists walk in with guns and start shooting at you and other diners are you telling me that the 1st number you think of dialling isn't 999. Now this may sound far fetched at the moment but those poor victims in Paris probably didn't expect what happened to them either.
It is Time people woke up and realised what is just around the corner.

Quite right

 

[GMES]

How anyone can say that current events are scaremongering is mindblowing, I was watching the news the other day and 2 women were saying how wrong it is to bomb isis, now it's an awful thought but I wonder if they would be saying the same thing if one of their loved ones had been killed by them.
I don't think we can even say if this happens it's more a case of when!! to think we are not going to come under attack very soon is just plain and simply naive.
Let's see what all the do gooders say when there are weekly attacks on the uk streets.

 

[Englishman]

For everyone saying that more people are killed by other means, and that terrorist incidents, thankfully, are rare. I agree.

The problem comes when madmen are randomly trying to murder people, and with all police armed, even with tasers, these incidents can be stopped a lot quicker.

But it's not gonna happen, and we must deal with these things now.

 

[sean_ork]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

 

[Englishman]

I won't go through this properly, but are you really saying that we shouldn't care about stopping terrorists murdering innocent people because lots of other people die?

 

[sean_ork]

I won't go through this properly, but are you really saying that we shouldn't care about stopping terrorists murdering innocent people because lots of other people die?

No, just prioritize our concern and effort with due regard to the actual quantity of lives able to be saved.

It's a simple concept.

 

[Pete999]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

Sean
Most of the issues you raised are correct, and there is action ongoing to try and prevent these things, granted not all are working all that well but government is trying (no I'm not a Tory before you ask) but what are we doing on the home front to counteract these evil acts as shown in the video at the start this thread? giving our copper Tasers that don't work, you don't have to shoot to kill every time, I'm sure there are firearm systems out there that can incapacitate the perp, shouting "Taser Taser Taser" at them is a joke, made even worse when it doesn't work. There was a Politician many years ago that predicted something like this would happen, unfortunately he was branded as a Racist, which I believe was untrue, the Government at the time choose to ignore him, sadly.

 

[sean_ork]

Threads like these are rather a sad reflection on our Nation ......

How come there's never such an upsurge of concern over the 1000s that are already dying ?

The scandal of Britain's fuel poverty deaths | The big energy debate | The Guardian

 

[Paul.M]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

None of the above include a person or a group carrying out a premeditated attack on innocent members of the public in public places due to their misinterpretation of a religious book.

In these next few weeks I expect another attack or attacks on Christmas shopping centers. I'd like to see armed police walking the streets, if they are willing to murder any random person that is just in the wrong place at the wrong time, they deserve to be shot.

 

[sean_ork]

There's very little that can be done to prevent a nutter with a bread knife slashing in a public place, let's be honest and get real here.

Put the army on the streets if you think that would help - but let's not forget how 100000s are already dying in this Country.

We appear to have the money for bombs yet we cant afford to insulate old folks homes - that's more concern to me.

 

[GMES]

Sean this thread was started by myself because of a terrorist act that occured yesterday and in my opinion is just the beginning now I am slightly confused what your argument has got to do with it, yes the things on your list are true and very sad but nothing to do with isis which is what this thread is about, As already said are we just going to let them run around killing innocent people. Even if we could resolve everything on your list it would not stop a group of isis soldiers from beheading innocent people would it or am I wrong.

 

[GMES]

There's very little that can be done to prevent a nutter with a bread knife slashing in a public place, let's be honest and get real here.

Put the army on the streets if you think that would help - but let's not forget how 100000s are already dying in this Country.

We appear to have the money for bombs yet we cant afford to insulate old folks homes - that's more concern to me.

I think one of the problems with most people is they think it won't happen to them, what is to stop the terrorist choosing at random to attack your city/ town and suddenly you are slap bang in the middle of a fatal explosion or worse your loved ones suffer the same tragedy, would it concern you then. I am not trying to sound harsh I just think you need to accept that the current situation is very serious and is coming to a town near you so to speak.

 

[Darkwood]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

All relevent points sean in their own field and each would in itself warrant a thread of their own to discuss but I feel these points are not really relevent to the subject in hand here, I somewhat confused here, what has the death rate is due to RTA's or eating too many burgers has to do with questions raised about arming our police to be better able to handle a terrorist event?
It seems you have some very strong political views here your bursting to share but if we were to start reflecting on each of these points it would totally derail the thread topic, of course you could always start your own thread in Politics and Economy section raising your concerns

 

[sean_ork]

Now I'm confused (not really) - we now gone from a disaffected Muppet slashing with a breadknife to the beheading monsters that are ISIS - isnt that just a little OTT ?

You do know that you are falling into their trap ?

 

[GMES]

Thanks Darkwood, I was starting to think I had come into a different thread to the one I started, I too agree that Sean has some valid points but I cannot see the connection between them and me asking if we should Arm our police force in the light of prevailing acts of terrorism.

 

[GMES]

Sean the breadknife muppet as you call him said that his actions were in retaliation for events in syria which unless they've moved overnight is where isis operate.

 

[Midwest]

Whilst the concept of arming every single police officer might seem a good idea against defending ourselves against terrorist attack, it is not practical. The training of a police firearms officer takes quite some time and requires monthly refresher training. Also not every officer would be suitable, nor would all like to carry a firearm, quite a responsibility to use lethal force. Best left intensively trained selected few. If you look at the U.S. where all law enforcement are routinely armed, still doesn't stop 'Active Shooter' incidents, and one this week where the armed police officer shot the suspect whilst he was on the ground.

 

[Paul.M]

I think one of the problems with most people is they think it won't happen to them, what is to stop the terrorist choosing at random to attack your city/ town and suddenly you are slap bang in the middle of a fatal explosion or worse your loved ones suffer the same tragedy, would it concern you then. I am not trying to sound harsh I just think you need to accept that the current situation is very serious and is coming to a town near you so to speak.

Just about to leave home and go into the city center to do xmas shopping. Should we feel scared? Will a nutter with a knife or gun (God forbid a bomb!) attack innocent shoppers. Millions of people have given their lives over the centuries for the freedom we have today. It will never be taken away by the actions of terrorists.

 

[sean_ork]

All relevent points sean in their own field and each would in itself warrant a thread of their own to discuss but I feel these points are not really relevent to the subject in hand here, I somewhat confused here, what has the death rate is due to RTA's or eating too many burgers has to do with questions raised about arming our police to be better able to handle a terrorist event?
It seems you have some very strong political views here your bursting to share but if we were to start reflecting on each of these points it would totally derail the thread topic, of course you could always start your own thread in Politics and Economy section raising your concerns

Much to my disappointment, there's not much I disagree with in your comments, but .....

Why are there no threads, on any type of forum (perhaps other than the green building one) calling us to arms (metaphorically speaking) to deal with those 100000s of avoidable deaths, the causes of which I've mentioned.

Yet theres plenty ready to jump on a bandwagon when a few random acts kill a few hundred ?

 

[sean_ork]

Just about to leave home and go into the city center to do xmas shopping. Should we feel scared? Will a nutter with a knife or gun (God forbid a bomb!) attack innocent shoppers. Millions of people have given their lives over the centuries for the freedom we have today. It will never be taken away by the actions of terrorists.

Well said, fear mongering without due regard to the real dangers in our society is also a form of terrorism.

 

[GMES]

I have also got to switch off for a while but will log back in later, what I won't do though is get into a debate about winter fuel alowances and the nhs, I started this thread to discuss whether our police force should be Armed and will happily debate that topic. If anyone wishes to discuss the other matters feel free to start a thread in the politics section.

 

[Guest77]

Leytonstone stabbing: Man 'screams this is for Syria' after horror attack in Tube station - Mirror Online

So how long until every police officer needs to be armed with deadly weapons ( Guns ) the officer in the video tasers the terrorist with little effect.
If we are going to expect the police to protect us in the fight against terrorism then surely they need the equipment to do so and also on a similar note I can see everyday civilians starting to Arm themselves very soon if things escalate with local random attcks like this.

What are your thoughts is it time to arm every officer in the uk,because while I don't want to end up like America and therir gun laws I also think it is unrealistic to send a police officer with a taser to face a terrorist with either a gun or an explosive device. please discuss;

I have already voiced my views, and again I will state we need to go into their backyard with troops, vet all men in the country, pay huge rewards to those who turn in the ISIS members and then deal with them, it may take 2-3 years of vetting to vet all 10 million men of fighting age but it needs to be bealt with and the united nations should pay for it via all countries in the UN paying their bit, if that don't work them high intensive bombing will have to be deployed, I know this will shock some, one or two members had a wobbler last time I mentioned this but history will tell you the way we are trying to deal with it now just isn't working, the syrian and Iraqi governments as well as Pakistan are not sorting it out, how many more of our innocents need to be beheaded or blown up in the streets?

 

[Darkwood]

My tuppence here is there are a few aspects to look at in better preparing our police, the actual effectiveness and the perceived effect, if you arm our police you increase the chance of accidental or misjudged incidents that end in the death of a member of the public, would it be a good thing to trade off several deaths against a once in a decade event (as it stands at the moment), also arming the police raises public mistrust and would create an even bigger barrier than we have at present between the police and the public, it has a knock on effect for tourism too, showing on the street level that we are under a high level of risk from terrorism does effect tourism and subsequently the strength of the economy.

You cannot stop all attacks and people will die but we also cannot run scared and hide in our cellars, we have to just get on with it and hope any major acts are stopped through intelligence as opposed to at street level during the event so imho arming the police because of a home grown loner terrorist would be a big kneejerk reaction here, we need to relax the snoop laws and let our Intelligence the freedom to follow these scum and subsequently use it in evidence to lock them up - at present we are still seeing protests from deluded idiots complaining about their right to privacy yet they would be the first ones complaining that our police force didn't do enough to stop an event from happening.

 

[sean_ork]

Whilst the concept of arming every single police officer might seem a good idea against defending ourselves against terrorist attack, it is not practical. The training of a police firearms officer takes quite some time and requires monthly refresher training. Also not every officer would be suitable, nor would all like to carry a firearm, quite a responsibility to use lethal force. Best left intensively trained selected few. If you look at the U.S. where all law enforcement are routinely armed, still doesn't stop 'Active Shooter' incidents, and one this week where the armed police officer shot the suspect whilst he was on the ground.

That's very true, its odd that the recent incident has been splashed all over our media, yet the in excess of 300, yes 300 ! mass shootings that have already occurred in the US barely get a mention.

That's over 300 mass shootings this year in the US, carried out by primarily disaffected white US citizens, using legally purchased arms - arming plod over there isn't helping, why would it here.

 

[Pete999]

My tuppence here is there are a few aspects to look at in better preparing our police, the actual effectiveness and the perceived effect, if you arm our police you increase the chance of accidental or misjudged incidents that end in the death of a member of the public, would it be a good thing to trade off several deaths against a once in a decade event (as it stands at the moment), also arming the police raises public mistrust and would create an even bigger barrier than we have at present between the police and the public, it has a knock on effect for tourism too, showing on the street level that we are under a high level of risk from terrorism does effect tourism and subsequently the strength of the economy.

You cannot stop all attacks and people will die but we also cannot run scared and hide in our cellars, we have to just get on with it and hope any major acts are stopped through intelligence as opposed to at street level during the event so imho arming the police because of a home grown loner terrorist would be a big kneejerk reaction here, we need to relax the snoop laws and let our Intelligence the freedom to follow these scum and subsequently use it in evidence to lock them up - at present we are still seeing protests from deluded idiots complaining about their right to privacy yet they would be the first ones complaining that our police force didn't do enough to stop an event from happening.

Hear Hear, well said far to much ----- footing around

 

[sean_ork]

I have also got to switch off for a while but will log back in later, what I won't do though is get into a debate about winter fuel alowances and the nhs, I started this thread to discuss whether our police force should be Armed and will happily debate that topic. If anyone wishes to discuss the other matters feel free to start a thread in the politics section.

I'll bet you've never started a thread about winter fuel allowances, odd that eh.

 

[sean_ork]

Hear Hear, well said far to much ----- footing around

I'm pleased to see you are now supporting an intelligent, evidence based solution to this issue, one that doesn't call for the use of weapons as the first line of attack.

Welcome to the club.

 

[telectrix]

careful pete. someone might suggest shooting us old farts who smoke, drink the satanic alcohol, listen to heavy rock, and eat proper food instead of moozley, pasta, fish, and other such sh1te and become a drain on the nhs, who should be spending their limited funds on cosmetic surgery, drug addicts, and transsexual operations. :90:

 

[Guest77]

I'll bet you've never started a thread about winter fuel allowances, odd that eh.

Not really no, however you can if you like, we will be happy to join in.

 

[Guest77]

careful pete. someone might suggest shooting us old farts who smoke, drink the satanic alcohol, listen to heavy rock, and eat proper food instead of moozley, pasta, fish, and other such sh1te and become a drain on the nhs, who should be spending their limited funds on cosmetic surgery, drug addicts, and transsexual operations. :90:

Afternoon Tel

 

[telectrix]

what's wrong with winter fuel allowance? mine bought a fleece jacket and a month's supply of beer.

 

[Guest77]

what's wrong with winter fuel allowance? mine bought a fleece jacket and a WEEK's supply of beer.

Corrected that for you

 

[newtothis]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

People react when the police shoot an innocent person they suspect is a terrorist.

Following Sean’s logic, people shouldn’t overreact, because statistically the dead suspect could just as easily have died while waiting for an operation, or got hit by a bus .

Least that’s how it’s coming across to me. That said, I don't claim to be an expert.

 

[Guest77]

What has all this got to do with the fact terrorists are running amok on our streets? lee rigby was beheaded in london, we had 130 people machine gunned in paris, another attack last night where 3 people were stabbed in London, the 14 people shot in California, yes we know we have other issues here, but what do you expect us to do? allow the terrorists to carry on slaughtering the innocent because other innocents die here? pull yourselves together for heavens sake.

 

[sean_ork]

Saving lives, that's where I'm coming from - prioritise our input where its most warranted.

Arming plod won't help - just look at the US.

Starve ISIS of their means of support - stop falling into their trap and becoming fear mongering recruiters - that's my message.

Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

If we can't keep a track of the known muppets, what chance have we got agaisnt the truly randoms ?

Top Isis fundraiser 'flees UK to Syria' | Home News | News | The Independent

 

[Guest77]

Saving lives, that's where I'm coming from - prioritise our input where its most warranted.

Arming plod won't help - just look at the US.

Starve ISIS of their means of support - stop falling into their trap and becoming fear mongering recruiters - that's my message.

Mass Shootings in 2015 - Mass Shooting Tracker

If we can't keep a track of the known muppets, what chance have we got agaisnt the truly randoms ?

Top Isis fundraiser 'flees UK to Syria' | Home News | News | The Independent

The first job of any UK Government is to protect it's borders and allow it's people to live in freedom and democracy, currently it is getting to the stage where people are scared to go outdoors, the Government needs to do something, just ignoring it isn't helping anyone except the terrorists, yes we have other issues in this country, food banks for one and the bedroom tax and people who have to choose to heat or eat, but this said we can vote at the ballot box to change Governments if we are not happy with the way they run the country, we cannot control terrorism, we need the UN and coalitions to do that, the UN has just given the green light to all member states to deal with ISIS by any means nesassary, and by all means available, we must adhere to the UN, we are a permanent member and we must along with the other 4 members lead from the front.

 

[sean_ork]

What has all this got to do with the fact terrorists are running amok on our streets? lee rigby was beheaded in london, we had 130 people machine gunned in paris, another attack last night where 3 people were stabbed in London, the 14 people shot in California, yes we know we have other issues here, but what do you expect us to do? allow the terrorists to carry on slaughtering the innocent because other innocents die here? pull yourselves together for heavens sake.

There's another similar thread on here, within which I've outlined the approach I think we should be taking.

I appreciate that some folks think arming plod would help or solve this issue, but the evidence clearly shows it doesn't - it just gives the public an unwarranted sense that we are dealing with it. In reality armed plod is dealing with the issue at the wrong end of the chain, its simply a drain on resource from the intelligence and asett led actions that could very quickly be productive.

I strongly beleive that bombing their oil convoys is the right thing to be doing, we should also close the Turkish border, that's where their new muppets travel through, that's where their food and fuel comes from - ISIS is a blunt weapon, let's start using some intelligence.