Anyone seen this symbol before?

[Shoei]

He also wants them dimmed.
So that’s 900 watts through a dimmer. I think they are rated to 600 Watts max.
In a 16mm box.
Oh dear.
Other than that a relatively straight foreward day!

Tricky one, there were a few 1kW dimmers around but that would be a lot of LEDs, so they're mostly disappearing.

The Varilight HQ9W is rated at 1kW, MIs 'recommend' 25mm box so it might squeeze into 16mm, doubt it though.

This Amazon seller lists the HQ9W, here.

If your customer complains about fitting a deeper box a 10mm spacer would look tidy enough.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Tricky one, there were a few 1kW dimmers around but that would be a lot of LEDs, so they're mostly disappearing.

The Varilight HQ9W is rated at 1kW, MIs 'recommend' 25mm box so it might squeeze into 16mm, doubt it though.

This Amazon seller lists the HQ9W, here.

If your customer complains about fitting a deeper box a 10mm spacer would look tidy enough.

Thanks for that. Interesting.

I was going to fit a deeper box, in fact I've several to do on the house, and I hadn't really quoted for chasing back, and its all just been painted.

Trouble is the proposed dimmer switches are brass or chrome. Might look a bit naff with a spacer.

Pushing for LEDs though. He'd get his money back within a couple of years at the very most. I've just done a calculation for him.

 

[Shoei]

Thanks for that. Interesting.

I was going to fit a deeper box, in fact I've several to do on the house, and I hadn't really quoted for chasing back, and its all just been painted.

Trouble is the proposed dimmer switches are brass or chrome. Might look a bit naff with a spacer.

Pushing for LEDs though. He'd get his money back within a couple of years at the very most. I've just done a calculation for him.

You're right, LEDs would make sense, although otherwise you might get a steady stream of work replacing blown oven lamps.

Agree that a spacer wouldn't look good under a brass dimmer, just had another look and see that TLC stock the 1kW Varilight with a brass plate.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Since changing to LED's in all my fittings I have saved over £100.00 in two years in replacement costs alone, not sure on the electricity savings, but must be near the same, false economy to use any other type of bulb in a chandelier that big IMO.

 

[sparkdog]

Don't fit in a dog's kennel.

 

[gnuuser]

i would say probably for a fridge any larger wattage and the thermal shock from the lamp heating up and cooling off and it would shatter inside the fridge

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

i would say probably for a fridge any larger wattage and the thermal shock from the lamp heating up and cooling off and it would shatter inside the fridge

The lamps provided are designed to operate at zero degrees centigrade, according to the box.

 

[Michael Sands]

Maybe you could fit new dimmer to existing brass plate most can be dismantled from faceplates I’ve done it a couple of times

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Maybe you could fit new dimmer to existing brass plate most can be dismantled from faceplates I’ve done it a couple of times

I think I know what you mean.
Just white plate switches there at the moment. Even some of the 16mm boxes actually look to be a bit proud if the surface.

Looks like I’m going in!

 

[Ian B]

A lot of high capacity dimmers required a metal faceplate to assist with heat dissipation so don't take a dimmer off a metal plate and fit to a plastic one.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

A lot of high capacity dimmers required a metal faceplate to assist with heat dissipation so don't take a dimmer off a metal plate and fit to a plastic one.

Thank you - interesting.

 

[naylorpd]

"false economy to use any other type of bulb in a chandelier that big IMO"

Well you can say that now with the benefit of the alternatives available in 2019. But in Azerbaijan we've had 20-lamp chandeliers for over 15 years and when first installed the only lights available were 40W incandescents, which is what the fittings were rated for. We have two 20-bulb lights plus another 3 with 6-8 bulbs each. Then the first round of economy lamps came in, which were about 20W but not very pretty, and finally LEDs at around 6-8W apiece. But there are still plenty of modern lights available that use halogen, you'd not need many of them to get up to half a kilowatt.

But IMO if you are going to use 15W incandescent bulbs to light what looks like a big room then you're going to need 30 of them anyway, if you don't want to sit in the dark. Also AFAIR not all LED lamps are dimmable. We typically wire a chandelier to two switches, so "dimming" means only one circuit on.

 

[Ian B]

One issue with crystal chandeliers is they are designed for point source lamps, to get the best internal reflections from the crystal elements.
There are now some LED lamps that attempt to replicate the point source, but in the early days of energy saving lamps (CFLs and LEDs) the only option was the frosted "ice cream cone base" type, that were completely wrong for crystal chandeliers, and just made the fitting look dull!
So, if you're going to fit LEDs please ensure you go for the point source type, with minimal white housing for the driver - ideally there would be ones with black driver housings so as not to draw attention to them.

 

[naylorpd]

Last time I bought a chandelier in the UK the "crystals" were plastic and didn't sparkle at all. Rapidly replaced with one hand-carried from Azerbaijan.

It's a real struggle to put chandeliers in UK homes as the ceilings are too low, only about 2.5m so you are limited to short designs on short chains. Here 3m is an absolute minimum even for apartment blocks, up to 4m in larger houses.

Frosted covers work OK and give a good overall light, though newer designs are more like the old clear glass incandescent bulbs.

But I really couldn't imagine 15W oven lamps being used as the main light source in a large room, even 30 of them.

 

[Ian B]

Sorry, I disagree. You should never fit frosted/pearl lamps of any variety in a crystal chandelier.

 

[Ian B]

I agree about ceiling heights, but the places I work in are generally 2 storey atrium's or 3.5-4m ceilings.

 

[naylorpd]

LED lamps with line sources and clear covers are another new-ish development - I installed my lights about 3 years ago and used what was available at the time. Being LED, I haven't needed to replace them yet, but if I did it would be around 60 bulbs so quite expensive, even here.

 

[Gary K]

How many times is that Varilight dimmer going to need replacing? I have found that when a bulb blows, the power surge seems to burn out the dimmer also even when using LED bulbs.
With that many bulbs waiting to fail, I foresee trouble.

 

[Ian B]

Yes, LEDs have come on a lot in recent years.
One that is good for chandeliers is
SALE Candle (CL 11000) | Civilight - https://civilight.nl/nl/producten/sale-led-retrofit-bulb-cl-11000-118/
with silver housing and a crystal element built in
(they used to be available in a gold finish as well, ideal for polished/laquered brass chandeliers, but they don't seem to list that now).

 

[Old Tiler 43192]

Re:The customer insisting you fit them; you are the professional who knows the implications of doing so and what's right, they are not designed to be fitted into normal light fittings (manufacturers instructions take precedence) so I'd educate him of that fact or walk away. Drawing 450W per light (how many of these are there in total) and the other lights, is the cabling up to the job?

Re LED costs. If he wants to consider going to LEDs, that would save about 15% off his electricity bill and if you'd like to put him in touch with me, I can arrange for good quality ones to be supplied and fitted for free throughout the whole house (and no, it won't be me doing it or getting paid for fitting them, and if you'd like to PM me for more information, you could get paid up to £350 for the introduction).