Could anyone please settle an argument?

[Palmer Riley]

What is the difference between the 2 RCD sockets pictured? Are they both indoor? Is one indoor and the other outdoor? I have put the manufacturer and model number for them below.

Picture 1 - LGA Selectric SP-RCD2GS
Picture 2 - CED WRCDSSK2

Many thanks in advance.

 

[telectrix]

" what we have here is a lack of communication" ( prison governor to paul newman, cool hand luke )

 

[Marvo]

Hi All,

I a newbie to the forum and also I am said "arsehole customer"

It wasn't me who called you an a-hole....honest

I ordered part number WRCDSSK2 and was sent part number SP-RCD2GS. I noticed straight away that there was a difference in the 2 units and the part I ordered has 3 BS numbers where as the part I received only has 2.

The thing with BS numbers and ISO numbers for that matter is you've got to know which standard they're referring to for them to mean anything. Manufacturers usually stamp their products with the most relevant ones but there's no reason a product can't have dozens of BS numbers stamped on it but they tend to get meaningless. For example there's a BS that refers to the dimensions of the plug/socket pins and how they're arranged but there's also a BS for the amount of recycled plastic being used in the product. Most manufacturers would indicate the first one but omit to stamp it with the second one because the vast majority of customers wouldn't see it as being relevant to making their purchase choice. What I'm trying to illustrate is that the number of BS stamps on a product isn't necessarily relevant, the thing that indicates suitability for outdoor use is the IP rating.

OK, now on further inspection I noticed that the 2 units have different dimensional specs. The plug sockets are located in different parts of the front plate. This meant that the plugs didnt line up with the housing which came originally with the part wrcdssk2.

The outer dimensions probably aren't covered by any of the BS numbers stamped on the products.

This is the second time, different company, I have had problems with suppliers not knowing all the facts about what the are selling, which is worrying when it comes to electrics.

Suppliers will never know all the facts about their products, I'd expect an electrical supplier to know the electrical facts, IP ratings and temperature ratings but they're never going to know things like whether they fit precisely in different enclosures or back-boxes same as they won't know the exact colour or whether the thing is made from ABS or PVC for example.

I think the problem is just lack of understanding and communication by both parties. I don't think the supplier was incorrect to tell you that these products are essentially the same item because to most intents and purposes and electrically speaking they are. I also don't think your concerns about the differing dimensions and certifications are misplaced either, I guess the more important thing is that fact that it's resolvable without the relationship breaking down.

 

[shanky887614]

the other thing about electrical wholesalers is as long as the product isnt rendered unsellable by the buyer then they will usually swap the item no questions asked.

 

[Palmer Riley]

the other thing about electrical wholesalers is as long as the product isnt rendered unsellable by the buyer then they will usually swap the item no questions asked.

Selling online you are bound by 'Distance selling regulations' and you have to accept returns upto 14 days after the date of sale. We have a 30 day policy but I know eBay have an option for 60 days!

 

[shanky887614]

Selling online you are bound by 'Distance selling regulations' and you have to accept returns upto 14 days after the date of sale. We have a 30 day policy but I know eBay have an option for 60 days!

yes but if the buyer has broken the item then it is not covered under the distance selling regulations.

if you knock a glass off a table and it shatters and try to get your money back through the distance selling regulations you will be laughed at

 

[Palmer Riley]

yes but if the buyer has broken the item then it is not covered under the distance selling regulations.

if you knock a glass off a table and it shatters and try to get your money back through the distance selling regulations you will be laughed at

You'd be amazed with what we get sent back!

 

[A-hole customer]

If you are not an Electrician as you say, then why are you fitting sockets!!!

Its changing an outdoor socket (inside polytunnel) from a (2.5mm arctic blue cable I believe) extension cable than runs from an internal plug with an extra RCD on it. Its all unplugged and its 2 screws and 3 wires. I ordered the exact same part I was replacing. Where's the problem??

When I say Im not an electrician, Im not one, its not my trade, but I know how to wire a plug

 

[A-hole customer]

You'd be amazed with what we get sent back!

Amazed, eh. I can't wait to get this returns envelope

In all seriousness. I was wrong with my argument but its turned out the part is slightly different so not appropriate for use anyhow. It all would have turned out the same, minus the slightly heated argument haha.

No hard feelings just try not to laugh at your customers on the phone. You never know, you may get some arsehole thats had little sleep and a stressful week and he may feel slightly belittled

ATB

 

[telectrix]

Amazed, eh. I can't wait to get this returns envelope

In all seriousness. I was wrong with my argument but its turned out the part is slightly different so not appropriate for use anyhow. It all would have turned out the same, minus the slightly heated argument haha.

No hard feelings just try not to laugh at your customers on the phone. You never know, you may get some arsehole thats had little sleep and a stressful week and he may feel slightly belittled

ATB

having read that. i assume the arctic cable is fitted with a plug. in which case an extension socket ( same as you get on an extension lead, 2 way or 4 way) could be fitted to the arctic cable and enclosed in a weatherproof box. loike this:

 

[Knobhead]

Oh Dear.

We're not a call centre, we are real people based in our ************ office who are full of knowledge about our products and would be delighted to help you.

 

[Palmer Riley]

Oh Dear.

We're not a call centre, we are real people based in our ************ office who are full of knowledge about our products and would be delighted to help you.

Again, with the greatest respect you have not read all of the thread. I knew the answer to the original question, I wanted it to be confirmed independently. The mistake we made was that we sent out the wrong manufacturer of the correct part.

 

[A-hole customer]

Again, with the greatest respect you have not read all of the thread. I knew the answer to the original question, I wanted it to be confirmed independently. The mistake we made was that we sent out the wrong manufacturer of the correct part.

They do the same thing, but they are not the same part. The plug sockets are located in different places. Meaning if someone needs the crappy wrcdssk2 he will need to spend all day tracking one down, eventually finding one in scotland!!.

Can anyone answer why the bloody hell did they (can i mention the manufacturer on here, sure you know who) decide to be the only socket manufacturer to put the sockets slightly under the screws, when all the other specs are identical!? did they have a bad day last thing on friday and then think "oh....that'll do". And is the wrcdssk2 becoming obselete??

Anyway. I be glad to get this situation over with TBH.

Apologies to the OP for any grievances caused. Hope you recorded the phone call for training purposes

 

[Palmer Riley]

They do the same thing, but they are not the same part. The plug sockets are located in different places. Meaning if someone needs the crappy wrcdssk2 he will need to spend all day tracking one down, eventually finding one in scotland!!.

Can anyone answer why the bloody hell did they (can i mention the manufacturer on here, sure you know who) decide to be the only socket manufacturer to put the sockets slightly under the screws, when all the other specs are identical!? did they have a bad day last thing on friday and then think "oh....that'll do". And is the wrcdssk2 becoming obselete??

Anyway. I be glad to get this situation over with TBH.

Apologies to the OP for any grievances caused. Hope you recorded the phone call for training purposes

Would you be able to send me a photo of the enclosure that it needs to go into?

 

[A-hole customer]

Would you be able to send me a photo of the enclosure that it needs to go into?

Im sorry I cant ATM. left the phone out in the rain last week so using the old one. That was my only means of taking a photo. Same reason didnt send one of the back of the unit, which is slightly different but in appearance only it seems.

Basically if you look at the pics you posted at the start of this thread, you will see the sockets are slightly under the screws on the wrcdssk2. The housing I have corresponds to this layout. Which means any other socket with a normal layout wont allow the housing to close, rendering the whole thing useless.

I am starting to wish I just brought a whole new housing etc. would have saved me a lot of time and money. Oh well. c'est la vie.

 

[Marvo]

This is obviously where the problem is, the original socket and backbox were manufactured as a matched pair and not designed to accommodate other sockets of similar form factor. It's not unusual, manufacturers do it to encourage you to purchase their sockets in future because they know the back-box is often mounted in the wall and is difficult to replace.

 

[Palmer Riley]

Im sorry I cant ATM. left the phone out in the rain last week so using the old one. That was my only means of taking a photo. Same reason didnt send one of the back of the unit, which is slightly different but in appearance only it seems.

Basically if you look at the pics you posted at the start of this thread, you will see the sockets are slightly under the screws on the wrcdssk2. The housing I have corresponds to this layout. Which means any other socket with a normal layout wont allow the housing to close, rendering the whole thing useless.

I am starting to wish I just brought a whole new housing etc. would have saved me a lot of time and money. Oh well. c'est la vie.

Is it similar to this enclosure?

IP65 WEATHERPROOF GARDEN HEAVY DUTY 13A DOUBLE SWITCHED SOCKET WITH NEONS SS65-D

Have you now sourced the offending socket?

 

[davesparks]

Its changing an outdoor socket (inside polytunnel) from a (2.5mm arctic blue cable I believe) extension cable than runs from an internal plug with an extra RCD on it. Its all unplugged and its 2 screws and 3 wires. I ordered the exact same part I was replacing. Where's the problem??

When I say Im not an electrician, Im not one, its not my trade, but I know how to wire a plug

Don't forget the ferrules for the end of the flex.

And of course to carry out the correct tests after you have fitted the new socket, especially the correct RCD test. RCD's are notoriously unreliable, especially those cheap socket ones, and unless it is tested properly to prove that it trips in time to save someone life if the worst should happen you had better assume it won't work.

You are quite right it is only 3 wires, but it only takes one of them to kill a healthy adult!

 

[Knobhead]

Is he still getting free advertising?

 

[A-hole customer]

Don't forget the ferrules for the end of the flex.

And of course to carry out the correct tests after you have fitted the new socket, especially the correct RCD test. RCD's are notoriously unreliable, especially those cheap socket ones, and unless it is tested properly to prove that it trips in time to save someone life if the worst should happen you had better assume it won't work.

You are quite right it is only 3 wires, but it only takes one of them to kill a healthy adult!

I do have a healthy respect for electricity, as I do for people warning others of the dangers. Thanks.

I have already put ferrules on. Its been running for over a year. Im just replacing the socket like for like.

 

[A-hole customer]

Is it similar to this enclosure?

IP65 WEATHERPROOF GARDEN HEAVY DUTY 13A DOUBLE SWITCHED SOCKET WITH NEONS SS65-D

Have you now sourced the offending socket?

Pretty much the same as far as I can see. I expect the wire holes are in a slightly different place, but yeah. thats it.

As I mentioned, I managed to source the infamous wrcdssk2 from Scotland.

And that suspiciously looks like a link there. tut!

 

[guest119]

Get a room you two, you obviously love each other now, gezzzzz!:tounge_smile:

Boydy

 

[GMES]

I do have a healthy respect for electricity, as I do for people warning others of the dangers. Thanks.

I have already put ferrules on. Its been running for over a year. Im just replacing the socket like for like.

Hi arsehole :tounge_smile: I didn't reply the other day as I didn't want to get into it , but dave as a very good point, if your not an electrician, then do you have the correct test equipment to test once you replace the unit. it may be like for like but remember you now become the last person to touch it.God forbid anything went wrong, it would be your door they come knocking on.

 

[davesparks]

I do have a healthy respect for electricity, as I do for people warning others of the dangers. Thanks.

I have already put ferrules on. Its been running for over a year. Im just replacing the socket like for like.

Good start, now what are you going to do to test that RCD before allowing anyone to use the socket (including you)

 

[A-hole customer]

Hi arsehole :tounge_smile: I didn't reply the other day as I didn't want to get into it , but dave as a very good point, if your not an electrician, then do you have the correct test equipment to test once you replace the unit. it may be like for like but remember you now become the last person to touch it.God forbid anything went wrong, it would be your door they come knocking on.

Who's coming knocking on my door, now?

The RCD isn't really necessary. I just had that for caution. Its just a glorified extension cable, just saves me reeling it up everyday. And the plug end becomes waterproof when the housing is closed for extra safety. I even have higher spec cable than you would get on a normal extension lead.

No I havent got the correct test equipment for the RCD but as I mentioned the Rcd is not a necessity. I will test it with the test switch. The main reason for the rcd is not to trip the house.

I know you can never be too careful with this stuff. And I want to stress I never touch any electrics in the house, besides being illegal I wouldnt want to go near it.

I guess my point is, is that I know what I have is a lot safer than a standard extension cable. And i feel that a call out and testing isnt really necessary. wouldnt it be like needing someone qualified to plug in an extension cable?

I am really trying my hardest not to comes across a s an arsehole haha but its my name after all

Im just trying to get my point across or at least, my thought process.

Thanks

 

[Octopus]

Who's coming knocking on my door, now?

The RCD isn't really necessary. I just had that for caution. Its just a glorified extension cable, just saves me reeling it up everyday. And the plug end becomes waterproof when the housing is closed for extra safety. I even have higher spec cable than you would get on a normal extension lead.

No I havent got the correct test equipment for the RCD but as I mentioned the Rcd is not a necessity. I will test it with the test switch. The main reason for the rcd is not to trip the house.

I know you can never be too careful with this stuff. And I want to stress I never touch any electrics in the house, besides being illegal I wouldnt want to go near it.

I guess my point is, is that I know what I have is a lot safer than a standard extension cable. And i feel that a call out and testing isnt really necessary. wouldnt it be like needing someone qualified to plug in an extension cable?

I am really trying my hardest not to comes across a s an arsehole haha but its my name after all

Im just trying to get my point across or at least, my thought process.

Thanks

And how is the RCD socket going to stop the house tripping then?

 

[trev]

Who's coming knocking on my door, now?

The RCD isn't really necessary. I just had that for caution. Its just a glorified extension cable, just saves me reeling it up everyday. And the plug end becomes waterproof when the housing is closed for extra safety. I even have higher spec cable than you would get on a normal extension lead.

No I havent got the correct test equipment for the RCD but as I mentioned the Rcd is not a necessity. I will test it with the test switch. The main reason for the rcd is not to trip the house.

I know you can never be too careful with this stuff. And I want to stress I never touch any electrics in the house, besides being illegal I wouldnt want to go near it.

I guess my point is, is that I know what I have is a lot safer than a standard extension cable. And i feel that a call out and testing isnt really necessary. wouldnt it be like needing someone qualified to plug in an extension cable?

I am really trying my hardest not to comes across a s an arsehole haha but its my name after all

Im just trying to get my point across or at least, my thought process.

Thanks

I'd quit while I was ahead (only in your own mind of course.)

 

[Knobhead]

This is getting ridiculous. One protagonist is blatantly plugging his company, the other is downright dangerous!

 

[davesparks]

Who's coming knocking on my door, now?

The RCD isn't really necessary. I just had that for caution. Its just a glorified extension cable, just saves me reeling it up everyday. And the plug end becomes waterproof when the housing is closed for extra safety. I even have higher spec cable than you would get on a normal extension lead.

No I havent got the correct test equipment for the RCD but as I mentioned the Rcd is not a necessity. I will test it with the test switch. The main reason for the rcd is not to trip the house.

I know you can never be too careful with this stuff. And I want to stress I never touch any electrics in the house, besides being illegal I wouldnt want to go near it.

I guess my point is, is that I know what I have is a lot safer than a standard extension cable. And i feel that a call out and testing isnt really necessary. wouldnt it be like needing someone qualified to plug in an extension cable?

I am really trying my hardest not to comes across a s an arsehole haha but its my name after all

Im just trying to get my point across or at least, my thought process.

Thanks

The RCD in the house will trip before the one in the socket due to the accumulated earth leakage on the installation biasing the house RCD to trip first.

The test button on the RCD only tests the mechanical operation of the RCD, it does not confirm that it will disconnect in the correct time.

How do you know that your cable is better than a standard extension cable? all of our standard extension cables are made from HO7-RNF flex which is a hell of a lot tougher than any arctic!
And are you sure it is true arctic cable and not just blue coloured PVC flex? A few years ago manufacturers started selling a lot of blue PVC flex as being arctic grade when it is not, this is one of the reasons arctic is no longer allowed for extension leads in temporary power.

 

[UNG]

You see it all the time on trade counters customers with a lack of knowledge and an "it's only" attitude wanting to increase the risk element to their lives and others innocently associated with them and this is just another one of them.

While the customer may have a gripe over not being supplied the exact part ordered he can see from his own quest to source the exact part that it is not always that easy when there are numerous reasons why suppliers may not always have stock and will offer an alternative to get the job up and running.

As to A-Hole's attitude to testing if he ends up in a box due to his own negligence then would it be reasonable to say "The customer wasn't always right" some people don't realise that "death can be fatal"

 

[Badged01]

..... some people don't realise that "death can be fatal"

I don't always agree with everything on the forum but you get my 100% backing there!