exyending ring main

[wobblymike]

i am about to build a partition wall in my daughters house to split one big bedroom into 2 for my grandchildren. Iam going to install 2 double sockets on each side of the new wall. There is one double socket in the bedroom at present and my intent is to split the ring under this socket by cutting one of the cables and inserting the new cable run via 2 30a junction boxes. When i polled up the floorboard yesterday I was surprised to see only 1 set of connections to the socket via a single cable. I confirmed this by opening the face plate and confirming there was only 1 set of connections. This indicates that the socket is a spur which is very surprising as it is the only socket in the room. Obviously I cannot run the new cable run from a spur. Am i missing something here?,

 

[Octopus]

Tel, Spin - yes, fair comment! Get so used to the same routine it's easy to forget. But, an interesting technical point, when does 'extending a circuit' (non notifiable) start to cross over with fundamentally changing the characteristics of a circuit so far as Zs and different CPD's is concerned?

AND - no one has yet to mention the letters R, C & D.

AND - no one has mentioned the letters b, o, n, d, i, n & g!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To be honest Rock, I am starting to think, that Part P, should just be totally ignored.
I had someone tell me the other day, that you must have the 2391 to be able to issue an EIC or MEIWC, or be a member of a competent persons scheme.
Apparently this bit in Part P says so:

1.10 “Qualified” in this context means having the appropriate qualifications, knowledge and experience to carry out the inspection and testing procedures and complete the relevant electrical installation certificate.

 

[Micklane]

Adding additional sockets, is not notifiable under in part P unless in a special location, and in England and Wales only. Also NAPIT doesn't state otherwise.

BS 7671 however requires RCD protection, where ordinary persons in houses etc. are concerned; this could be accomplished by fitting a combined RCD --- fused spur unit at the origin of the existing spur, so that the existing socket and the new are fully protected.


Regards

 

[wobblymike]

telectrix thams in the wakefield area

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Tel, Spin - yes, fair comment! Get so used to the same routine it's easy to forget. But, an interesting technical point, when does 'extending a circuit' (non notifiable) start to cross over with fundamentally changing the characteristics of a circuit so far as Zs and different CPD's is concerned?

AND - no one has yet to mention the letters R, C & D.

Cant for the life of me figure why this isnt notifiable?, as above Characteristics of circuit altered, how does a DIY guy with no tester Know if the CPC is continuous in the new cable he has added, if the zs is already on the limit, how does he not know if it is now over the required value?, how does he know if the house is earthed correctly at all?....farce

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

If its entered under "Other Work" as I was advised(incorrectly?) to do (for the last 3 years) then it appears as......Notifiable but i will them ring tomorrow

 

[Micklane]

Cant for the life of me figure why this isnt notifiable?, as above Characteristics of circuit altered,

For a competent preson, it will require a MWC, but it's not notifiable in this case.

Regards

 

[Rockingit]

If its entered under "Other Work" as I was advised(incorrectly?) to do (for the last 3 years) then it appears as......Notifiable but i will them ring tomorrow

Of course they'll say it's notifiable- they want the money!!

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

I will be putting in an invoice to Napit for all them £1 notifications I didn't need to do!

 

[thekingiam]

who is going to check zs, volt drop, continuity,polarity,insulation resistance,rcd protection present and tested and bonding?
an electrician should do these tests without thinking about it, anyone could add extra sockets and yes they should work if done corectly the problem is always if a fault occured later on you see dead people.
i think but not sure its a minnor works cert but not notifiable unless in special location.
this does not mean anyone can do this work, they should still be competant and do tests listed on minnor works it's up to diyer to prove competancy later on if someone dies.
I would also ask if anyone knows of any household insurers that have not paid out because of diyers?

 

[wobblymike]

again thankyou all for your comments all of which i hear and take on board. What i would like to first do is establish if i have a ring or radial circuit. it is wired as follows
sockets excluding cooker are fed via 1 rcd rated at 32a
sockets in bedroom 1 and 2 have 2 sets of connections to each
single socket in bedroom 3 has 1 set of connections to it
this tells ne it is a radial circuit which i find very surprising
would someone please confirm or otherwise my thinking on this

 

[MDJ]

i am about to build a partition wall in my daughters house to split one big bedroom into 2 for my grandchildren. Iam going to install 2 double sockets on each side of the new wall. There is one double socket in the bedroom at present and my intent is to split the ring under this socket by cutting one of the cables and inserting the new cable run via 2 30a junction boxes. When i polled up the floorboard yesterday I was surprised to see only 1 set of connections to the socket via a single cable. I confirmed this by opening the face plate and confirming there was only 1 set of connections. This indicates that the socket is a spur which is very surprising as it is the only socket in the room. Obviously I cannot run the new cable run from a spur. Am i missing something here?,

Without testing the continuity of the circuit I wouldn't dare suggest anything regarding it, best to leave well alone unless you feel you can do it correctly, remember your Grandchildren will be using these sockets, do you want to be responsible for their safety regarding this? Not trying to be awkward, I wish you well, but cannot help you do the Job yourelf due to your post, I hope you have a nice 2013 by the way.


Mike

 

[KAS1]

good question

who is going to check zs, volt drop, continuity,polarity,insulation resistance,rcd protection present and tested and bonding?
an electrician should do these tests without thinking about it, anyone could add extra sockets and yes they should work if done corectly the problem is always if a fault occured later on you see dead people.
i think but not sure its a minnor works cert but not notifiable unless in special location.
this does not mean anyone can do this work, they should still be competant and do tests listed on minnor works it's up to diyer to prove competancy later on if someone dies.
I would also ask if anyone knows of any household insurers that have not paid out because of diyers?

 

[kingeri]

again thankyou all for your comments all of which i hear and take on board. What i would like to first do is establish if i have a ring or radial circuit. it is wired as follows
sockets excluding cooker are fed via 1 rcd rated at 32a
sockets in bedroom 1 and 2 have 2 sets of connections to each
single socket in bedroom 3 has 1 set of connections to it
this tells ne it is a radial circuit which i find very surprising
would someone please confirm or otherwise my thinking on this

Clearly not!

 

[kingeri]

An RCD rated at 32a? Or an MCB rated at 32a? Or an RCBO?

 

[wobblymike]

its an rcd

 

[Deleted member 9648]

again thankyou all for your comments all of which i hear and take on board. What i would like to first do is establish if i have a ring or radial circuit. it is wired as follows
sockets excluding cooker are fed via 1 rcd rated at 32a
sockets in bedroom 1 and 2 have 2 sets of connections to each
single socket in bedroom 3 has 1 set of connections to it
this tells ne it is a radial circuit which i find very surprising
would someone please confirm or otherwise my thinking on this

Firstly it is not possible to tell visually if a circuit is a radial or ring without actually tracing the path of the wires....you will need to test to confirm. If the circuit is protected by a 32a MCB...(not RCD??...hope this is a typo?)...then it may be a ring,as a radial will normally be protected by a 20a MCB. But as already stated only testing can confirm whether the circuit is a ring and hence how it should be altered.
The job as you describe it is NOT notifyable to LABC....but still comes under the umbrella of part P and so must be carried out in accordance with bs7671 or you are breaking the law. If you are competant to do it to 7671 then go ahead,there is no restriction on DIY electrics as long as part P is complied with.

 

[KAS1]

What the !!!! sort of question is this, don't you know how to check out cabling to and from sockets etc lol

again thankyou all for your comments all of which i hear and take on board. What i would like to first do is establish if i have a ring or radial circuit. it is wired as follows
sockets excluding cooker are fed via 1 rcd rated at 32a
sockets in bedroom 1 and 2 have 2 sets of connections to each
single socket in bedroom 3 has 1 set of connections to it
this tells ne it is a radial circuit which i find very surprising
would someone please confirm or otherwise my thinking on this

 

[Octopus]

its an rcd

Which signals my time to get my coat. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

[KAS1]

Wouldn't he be better off getting a spark to do the job ?

Firstly it is not possible to tell visually if a circuit is a radial or ring without actually tracing the path of the wires....you will need to test to confirm. If the circuit is protected by a 32a MCB...(not RCD...hope this is a typo?)...then it may be a ring,as a radial will normally be protected by a 20a MCB. But as already stated only testing can confirm whether the circuit is a ring and hence how it should be altered.
The job as you describe it is NOT notifyable to LABC....but still comes under the umbrella of part P and so must be carried out in accordance with bs7671 or you are breaking the law. If you are competant to do it to 7671 then go ahead,there is no restriction on DIY electrics as long as part P is complied with.