Hello Everyone, Anyone good at solving Electricity Thefts?

[Crispin]

Hello I'm Crispin. Nice to meet you all. A landlord with an unfortunate tenant who has lost in the region of £1000 after a neighbour appears to have tapped into his mains consumer cable (leading from meter cupboard to fuse box) to siphon off electricity for their own personel use, over the period of 6 months (June 2019 - Jan 2020).

More info on this unusal crime if you check my account/content.

REWARD WAITING !!!

 

[DPG]

When was the last EICR done?

 

[Vortigern]

Deleted by user and a bag of crisps please

 

[Crispin]

It is by no means an unusual crime. Crime it is though under the Theft act 1978, Abstraction of Electricity it's described as. However it may be that someone put a supply in there without knowing that they had tapped the neighbours supply. The thing is proving the criminal intent to the standard of beyond reasonable doubt which if they are clever enough to devise and execute such an evil plot then they are most certainly devious enough to cast doubt in the courts mind as to intent which would then fail the test for guilt. In other words you may be barking up the wrong tree. It may be helpful to have some more facts on how this came about (installation and discovery) It seems two quarters past and the "victim" (?) did not notice an uplift in the bill and query it, why not? These are questions that will be asked. Did the next tenant also enjoy free electricity? Pictures would be good, closer up though! Are there witnesses to the neighbout installing this "tap"?

Hi, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure if you understand the situation correctly, did you watch the video?

I think youll find it very useful !!

 

[Vortigern]

I only saw it after the post, thats why I deleted it, my post that is.

 

[Vortigern]

I cant quite see what there is to solve. Surely you just follow where the wire/supply goes to then you have the answer? If you have removed the cable then what evidence do you have now? Oh and yes, good question @DPG, when was the last EICR? If the police will not investigate raise a complaint to the commissioner or your local MP.

 

[DPG]

I cant quite see what there is to solve. Surely you just follow where the wire/supply goes to then you have the answer?

I was going to say the same, but to be fair I haven't watched the video yet.

 

[Vortigern]

I have insufficient priveleges to post in the other post on the same subject so can obly post here. If you are a private landlord you are required by law to have an EICR done for any flat/house you rent. Failure to do so may leave you open to prosecution under the ESPRS regulations which came in full force in 2021. Looking at your installation it is old to say the least of it. YOu must know who the person is who did it as the wire will lead to the person/flat who used the free electricity. And really, how do you know they knew what they were doing?

 

[Vortigern]

Looking at your pics I am not sure that the cables supplying the MEM boxes above are double insulated (they should be) and the size of them looks too small. Also the boxes are showing signs of rusting and are not suitable for the environment they are placed in. But I am sure an EICR will bring up all these points. There is a fair chance there are asbestos pads in those boxes so whoever opened them to remove the evidence should know that. Also the cable going up the wall outside is not rated for outside usage. So..........Um get an EICR pronto I would say. And I hope you got an installation certificate for that new cable/circuit installation which I would doubt it was valid for the above reasons if you did get a cert.

 

[Crispin]

My video explains these issues. The mains consumer cable is about 10 meters long, gifting ample opportunity for another flat owner to 1. find the mains cable (they know was not thiers)in a cavity/under floorboard 2. tap into it for free electricity
The old mains cable is STILL THERE...UNUSED. REDUNDANT.
Replaced with a new miains consumer cable RUNNING EXTERNALLY (not internally likie the old one) where we can keep a constant eye on it.
So yes, we still have every opportunity to catch the thief.
Sure the theif has m,ade every effort to cover the tap location, but it wont take long to find it.
Sounbds like the EICR will stand a good chance of catching the theif in that case??
Plz Correct me if Im wrong?!
Tbf it will really help to watch my video. All issues are explained in 10 mins flat.

 

[Crispin]

Looking at your pics I am not sure that the cables supplying the MEM boxes above are double insulated (they should be) and the size of them looks too small. Also the boxes are showing signs of rusting and are not suitable for the environment they are placed in. But I am sure an EICR will bring up all these points. There is a fair chance there are asbestos pads in those boxes so whoever opened them to remove the evidence should know that. Also the cable going up the wall outside is not rated for outside usage. So..........Um get an EICR pronto I would say. And I hope you got an installation certificate for that new cable/circuit installation which I would doubt it was valid for the above reasons if you did get a cert.

Looks like very sound advice my friend. Are you local to Bournemouth? If so I'm more than happy for you to investigate the issue, now you know the facts.

 

[Vortigern]

I have watched the video. No the EICR will not discover the tap as under floor boards does not get looked into in an EICR. I live in the South West so can't help but it is the sort of job that is right up my street. I find it hard to beleive that someone could get under the floorboards and tap into the cable for another flat but it seems that may well be the case. Can you not look into the other flats and test the cable with a bell out to see who has the supply, it would be a lot easier.

 

[Crispin]

I have watched the video. No the EICR will not discover the tap as under floor boards does not get looked into in an EICR. I live in the South West so can't help but it is the sort of job that is right up my street. I find it hard to beleive that someone could get under the floorboards and tap into the cable for another flat but it seems that may well be the case. Can you not look into the other flats and test the cable with a bell out to see who has the supply, it would be a lot easier.

Many thanks and what a shame you not more local. V sorry Not quite sure what you mean "look into the other flats and test cable with a bell out" ??? problem is we currently have NO right of access to the flats/suspects in question. Why I was hoping the EICR would grant one.

 

[James]

Many thanks and what a shame you not more local. V sorry Not quite sure what you mean "look into the other flats and test cable with a bell out" ??? problem is we currently have NO right of access to the flats/suspects in question. Why I was hoping the EICR would grant one.

 

[Vortigern]

I mean you can test the other end of the cable to see which flat it is in. I am sure the Landlord of the other flats would co-operate in such a case as would the tenants if they understood what is at stake. It is confusing as you show the route of the tap cable in red and say it was on the outside wall. If it then goes into the building of your household how could someone next door gain access to the floorboards in the next house? I am afraid the vid does not explain this to me.

 

[Crispin]

I mean you can test the other end of the cable to see which flat it is in. I am sure the Landlord of the other flats would co-operate in such a case as would the tenants if they understood what is at stake. It is confusing as you show the route of the tap cable in red and say it was on the outside wall. If it then goes into the building of your household how could someone next door gain access to the floorboards in the next house? I am afraid the vid does not explain this to me.

The old consumer cable RUNS INSIDE the building (now disconnected) completely hidden from view. Meaning it could be re-instated, made live again, to help find where the wire goes. At the moment no one knows where it runs, under floorboards? inside cavities? Is anyones guess. I understand there is electrical equipment electricians use that can track the course of a live cable, assuming it is Live. However this will STILL require gaining access to other flats to track where the old consumer cable goes. Leading back to the same old problem, no one has right of access.
I think 2 flats (may) allow me in to check (28 & 28 A), however the 3rd flat 28 B (prime suspect) will NOT let me near the place. Suggesting to me that flat C is the culprit.

 

[Crispin]

The old consumer cable RUNS INSIDE the building (now disconnected) completely hidden from view. Meaning it could be re-instated, made live again, to help find where the wire goes. At the moment no one knows where it runs, under floorboards? inside cavities? Is anyones guess. I understand there is electrical equipment electricians use that can track the course of a live cable, assuming it is Live. However this will STILL require gaining access to other flats to track where the old consumer cable goes. Leading back to the same old problem, no one has right of access.
I think 2 flats (may) allow me in to check (28 & 28 A), however the 3rd flat 28 B (prime suspect) will NOT let me near the place. Suggesting to me that flat C is the culprit.

ALL WE NEED IS A CLEVER STRATEGY TO CATCH THEM.
PS and if we're successful? we can use the same method to catch 100s of other thieves operating exactly the same scam all over the country !!!

 

[Vortigern]

Thinking about it, first the cable will not be running inside the cavity wall. The most likely route is from the meters through the wall and then upstairs for all supply cables. It would be the most efficient route to all the four flats. It would be the easiest way to install the cables for a lot of reasons and then just drop down into the ground flr flats and up to the 1st flr flats. that means all the supplies except the flat behind the meters would run through flat A under the floorboards. I would suggest you allow for the fact that maybe Flat A wanted the consumer unit moved an the electrician could have made a mistake and tapped the neighbours cable or something like that. It may well be a planned theft, but do allow for a mistake. Not that I would in any way condone such a mistake.
If as you say you can get into two of the other flats then you can bell the cable in there to find out if the cable you took out is in anyway supplying those two flats. The cable does not have to be live at all. However if you could do that and eliminate the two flats then you know for a fact it is the flat you suspect.
The idea of catching and getting money back is a pretty quixotic idea. I imagine if someone did tap into the cable they will know the game is up and would have dis-connected their tap if they are a guilty party. Even then you would need evidence the person you suspect did it. That would be virtually impossible they could just say it was like that when I got there! Or yes I did connect but it was a mistake I did not realise I got the wrong wire. It is a fairly hopeless pursuit. All you can do is damage limitation now imho.

 

[Crispin]

Thinking about it, first the cable will not be running inside the cavity wall. The most likely route is from the meters through the wall and then upstairs for all supply cables. It would be the most efficient route to all the four flats. It would be the easiest way to install the cables for a lot of reasons and then just drop down into the ground flr flats and up to the 1st flr flats. that means all the supplies except the flat behind the meters would run through flat A under the floorboards. I would suggest you allow for the fact that maybe Flat A wanted the consumer unit moved an the electrician could have made a mistake and tapped the neighbours cable or something like that. It may well be a planned theft, but do allow for a mistake. Not that I would in any way condone such a mistake.
If as you say you can get into two of the other flats then you can bell the cable in there to find out if the cable you took out is in anyway supplying those two flats. The cable does not have to be live at all. However if you could do that and eliminate the two flats then you know for a fact it is the flat you suspect.

yes that makes alot of sense. I honestly didn't think anything like this could happen accidentally, albeit a slim chance. Very grateful for your advice on this matter. will have a careful think about your comment and see if i can find a suitable contractor who can interrogate the issue/do an EICR test at same time. have a great evening and many thanks.

 

[James]

If I thought there might be a fault on a cable that I owned that was using electricity when everything that is supplied was isolated.
I might be tempted to try a series of insulation tests at 1kv or even 5kv just to be sure