Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!!!!

[telectrix]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

John: Just to back up what has already been said, I asked an elecsa technical guy what to do when diversity calcs exceeded the fuse. The reply was "If the fuse hasn't blown, what are you worried about?"

egggsackly.

 

[High Tower]

That table is a great help in understanding things. Seems to like we don't really fit in either 'individual dwellings inside a block' or 'small hotel, guest house'. If I, as a layman, were to guess I would say more like domestic as normally each apartment let to a different family with different age kids etc so different routines and no central kitchen (as guest house would have to cook all meals at same time).
But as you guys say it's down to individual spark who is doing the cert as it's his/her name on cert.

Thanks for info, I am learning a lot. Thanks.

Your classes as a guest house as its possible all be it slim that every family could use showers at the same time in the morning, cookers in the evening etc etc

 

[ayjay]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

this thread has run its course
all has been said

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Your classes as a guest house as its possible all be it slim that every family could use showers at the same time in the morning, cookers in the evening etc etc

You are certainly not wrong but in my experience a lot of guests just eat takeaways hence not using the cookers at all! Unlike guest houses that have breakfasts within a 2 hr slot so showers before breakfast and then the guest house kitchen running flat out for 2 hrs. Where as here everyone gets up when they like and have showers and breakfast at what time suits them.

Must admit that this diversity stuff seems a bit of a black art. Just having a flick through BS7671:2008, boy do sparky have to do some maths these days!!!!
Does anyone actually do all the calcs for a new installation or do they use rule of thumb pocket guides?

 

[High Tower]

You are certainly not wrong but in my experience a lot of guests just eat takeaways hence not using the cookers at all! Unlike guest houses that have breakfasts within a 2 hr slot so showers before breakfast and then the guest house kitchen running flat out for 2 hrs. Where as here everyone gets up when they like and have showers and breakfast at what time suits them.

Must admit that this diversity stuff seems a bit of a black art. Just having a flick through BS7671:2008, boy do sparky have to do some maths these days!!!!
Does anyone actually do all the calcs for a new installation or do they use rule of thumb pocket guides?

I'm sure your assessment of guest house habits is way more accurate than any regs and as the lads have rightly said, if the bullet has held all this time then obviously your max demand is fine.

But that's why the regs classifies guesthouses as they do.

Most domestic and light commercial installs use what's known as " common practice" where it's accepted that lighting is run in 1.0 or 1.5, rings in 2.5 and so on.

Everything else normally requires varying degrees of calculations. The longer you do it the less calcs you need to do.

 

[High Tower]

this thread has run its course
all has been said

Sorry, are we bothering you?, would you like me to lock the thread so it doesn't annoy you?

The op has fed back that he has found this information useful and the lads have made some excellent contributions!.

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

The information posted has been very enlightening. It will enable me to have confidence in employing a sparky for the job. As I said originally this was all prompted by trying to get an insurance quote and many companies requesting an EICR.
Before this I was unaware of EICR's even thought we have had an HMO inspection about 6 years ago then the HMO system stopped covering us (so the council tell me)!
So this is an unexpected cost and it looks like we have a fair bit of work to be done. So the replies have been very helpful.

I am sorry if the forum is more used as a resource for sparks but here you actually get people commenting that know what they are talking about not 'keen' DIY people guessing on regs.

Thanks very much for everyone's help.

 

[SafetyFirst]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

There's some very helpful and good manoured ppl on here John, and then there's the others........

 

[Steve_P]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Only just caught up with this. a grand for 6 EICR's? On small units? I'd travel from here for that!

 

[brman]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

I am sorry if the forum is more used as a resource for sparks but here you actually get people commenting that know what they are talking about not 'keen' DIY people guessing on regs.
.

It might be mostly sparks here but everyone is more than happy to help someone like you wanting to do things right. It is the DIY brigade that want free advice and to avoid using a spark when they need to that get short shrift :lol:

 

[High Tower]

It might be mostly sparks here but everyone is more than happy to help someone like you wanting to do things right. It is the DIY brigade that want free advice and to avoid using a spark when they need to that get short shrift :lol:

That sums it up well!,

And John your more than welcome mate!

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Started to document and label things ready for spark. Found a couple of issues so far. 1 socket in an apartment not fed from fuse board in that apartment (I will get spark to install new socket) !!!
But the thing that I am wondering is the method that the other 4 double sockets are connected to the CU by. They each have a 2.5mm^2 PVC from fuse to socket, fused at 15amps.
If the insulation and other checks pass is this method acceptable or will it require a rewire.
Reason I ask is if it does require a rewire then I will start getting floor boards up and furniture out of way ready for spark.
Once again thanks for your help.

 

[gizmo]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Electrician visited today to have a look to enable him to quote for a EICR. Just on a visual look he says I need a new 100amp 3phase supply. Then 6 (6 flats) switch fuses next to new supply, then 16mm cable to each flat, then new consumer unit with mcb and rcd in each flat. That is providing that the fittings, cables and measurements are all OK within the flats.
It's 4 floors inc basement so long cable runs that will be done in 2 runs (front and rear of building). I am happy to do cable route preparation (getting floor boards up and making route for cables). I believe that the street mains supply is about 7 meters from current fuse board.

Anyone care to guess at a cost?

Cheers.

7 meters, across your property, or council areas ? And can we assume that you have an underground supply rather than an overhead one ? You'll be looking at a couple of grand, if you're lucky !


Oooops, that'll teach me to read the full post !

 

[brman]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Started to document and label things ready for spark. Found a couple of issues so far. 1 socket in an apartment not fed from fuse board in that apartment (I will get spark to install new socket) !!!
But the thing that I am wondering is the method that the other 4 double sockets are connected to the CU by. They each have a 2.5mm^2 PVC from fuse to socket, fused at 15amps.
If the insulation and other checks pass is this method acceptable or will it require a rewire.
Reason I ask is if it does require a rewire then I will start getting floor boards up and furniture out of way ready for spark.
Once again thanks for your help.

2.5mm2 radial sockets are generally no problem on a 15A fuse. Don't panic just yet :lol:

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

7 meters, across your property, or council areas ? And can we assume that you have an underground supply rather than an overhead one ? You'll be looking at a couple of grand, if you're lucky !
Oooops, that'll teach me to read the full post !

Thanks.
According to the online system for quoting: serviceconnection.co.uk looks like 6 m on my property and about 0.5m on council pavement. It's currently underground, actually it currently goes into basement. Fingers crossed it will be cheap. Womon on phone said prices start at £1300. Don't know if that including digging or not. I think I might well get them to do digging as where it cable currently comes in is close to both gas and water. That way if they damage anything at least it a big company that are responsible not some cheap 'builder' with no insurance etc.

Thanks

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

2.5mm2 radial sockets are generally no problem on a 15A fuse. Don't panic just yet :lol:

Thanks
So far all sockets correct polarity and all sockets have an earth (don't know how good). 1 socket wired as spur from cooker isolator (so that will have to go when spark arrives). So far light switches have earths again no idea how good they are and all cables look like pvc and correct diameter. So not as bad as it could be
Thanks.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

john, you have got as far as i think you can with checking your installation. the next step requires test equipment to ensure that the cabling is sound. with all due respect, you can't inspect all the under floor and buried in walls cables. this is where testing comes in. i will be visiting blackpool some time in the next 2 weeks and am happy to give you a quick courtesy call, not to do a full eicr, but to have a chat and a quick look-see. that would give me some sort of idea how much of a job an eicr would be.

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

That is a very kind offer. As you know you have a PM
Cheers
As you say without appropriate test kit and knowledge there is only so much I can do. With the help of the forum at least I will be able to give sparky a bit of help with labelling etc.

Thanks very much.

 

[ezzzekiel]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

providing submain cabling is ok then at this point there would be no need to worry about 100a supply, sort out each flat first then forget it, if you were to have problems the intake could be upgraded at a later date and would still only feed 40-50a feeds to flats anyway like they already have

 

[john999uk]

Re: Holiday Flats - electrical test - consumer units - supply cables - very worried!

Just to update. Telectrix very kindly called in yesterday as he was a couple of streets away on a job. Sorry we had run out of coffee, now stocked up He had a look and I am fairly sure that we will ask him to do some remedial work and then test building. He was a great help explaining things and putting them in context. I have some bits and bobs to sort out then I will see when he can fit us in.
So thanks very much Telectrix and forum members, speak to you soon Tel.
Thanks