I'm not an electrician but I some clever heads together

[beachlover]

Hi everyone
I have the strangest problem that no matter who I ask in the trade they seem to scratch their head and tell me to buy a surge protection unit. I have bought a million surge protections units Just sayin

Here is the problem and some of things done over the past three years to try to resolve it ....

I seem to be getting some sort of problem that is blowing up my computers. No amount of electrical test seem to find the faults. It's not just bad components or the company's where I buy the machines either.
I have estimated Over 16 devices blown and 47 repairs since 2014. This is from five different companies where I have purchased computers with a warranty.
Computers last typically for anything up to two days or two weeks before failing. This most common failure benign burnt chips on the GPU s

It is my understanding The modern motherboards have built in surge protection and they go into protection mode when a surge is detected. I have had this happen but when I next switch on the computer the GPU is damaged or becomes damaged.

Work carried out on my electricity by the electrician working for the housing association house I live in

1 - four different surge protectors bought
2- ups bought with surge protection
3 - 2013 a full electrical test on RCD panel and all sockets - passed
4- 2015 another full electrical test - passed
5- electric supplier monitored for surges from outside- none detected
6- two sockets faceplates replaced (the ones used for my computer)
7 - independent electrician hired tested sockets. No fault found.
8 - Eco Max Home Voltage optimiser fitted on RCD panel and set to 230v

Other information.
No other devices in the house fail and we have two HD TVs, a MacBook, two iPhones, router, and the usual lamps, kitchen equipment. New mouse,keyboard,HDMI cables,USB cables purchased

UK based electrical system with RCD panel with an additional Volt regulator fitted. We have 240 volts coming into the house
The housing association also fitted a gadget that regulates the volatage 230

On the last occasion I saw the the computer component frizzle smoke and could see the damage. I'm really worried about a fire risk
I have on occasion see sparks come from the switch on the outlet.

I would appreciate your thoughts on why this is happening to me as three independent electrical test and Electricians tell me they can not find or think of what could be causing it.

No computing for me for a while

Many thanks

 

[beachlover]

Well ok then I'm going back to my original idea;Power quality analysis. If your PV is doing strange things then it would be picked up. I can't really see where or how you can investigate further without such an approach. I think I agree with DavisonP, turn off your PV inverter and see what happens.

Does PV mean asking the electrician to turn of the solar panels?
I'm making a list of everything everybody has said so when the electrician turns up Monday I can put forward your suggestions .

 

[beachlover]

Please bear with me
I'm not familiar with the electrician speak
So I'm trying to take notes to tell the electrician on Monday

You are all awesome and I'm very grateful you have all got your heads together to help me with this.
Perhaps you all should have your next electric convention at my house (joking)

I'm really very gradual I mean grateful
Damn iPhone spell check

 

[The Ghost]

Does PV mean asking the electrician to turn of the solar panels

Yes it does mean isolating the supply from your solar panels so that they are no longer feeding into your house system/grid. As you are getting cooked capacitors from what you describe I can only imagine that there is higher voltage going through them than they are rated for and the electrolytic medium is drying out way too fast. And clearly somehow your computers are operating beyond their rated voltages d.c. and current capacity. You have had SSE out and they confirm it is not coming from your a.c. supply so the only possible suspect is the PV being the villain of the scene. There should be a label on your PV equipment detailing who installed it. Maybe you should contact them for information. As has been alluded to has your PV been checked lately? Maybe time to do so, or the Landlord should? Clearly beaten to death the idea of computer setup possibilities there is nothing else to consider....

 

[Davisonp]

I have no experience with the stuff, but is that a PV circuit I see there, and Air Source Heat Pump?

Well Spotted, with Solar Panels feeding into the system it is another possible source of problems, and the feed from the solar panels will vary significantly. It may be worth isolating the solar inverter for a few weeks to see if that solves the problem.

I will ask the electrician about this on Monday
I'm not sure but I did think the previous electrician said it was on a different circuit from the other household stuff.

Different circuit but on the same consumer unit, so indirectly connected to the computer circuit.

 

[Davisonp]

Does PV mean asking the electrician to turn of the solar panels?
I'm making a list of everything everybody has said so when the electrician turns up Monday I can put forward your suggestions .

PV is electrician speak for solar panels

 

[HandySparks]

It may be worth isolating the solar inverter for a few weeks to see if that solves the problem.

I'd agree. Definitely worth a try, especially as they won't be generating as much at this time of year, so you won't loose out by much.

 

[Davisonp]

Yes it does mean isolating the supply from your solar panels so that they are no longer feeding into your house system/grid. As you are getting cooked capacitors from what you describe I can only imagine that there is higher voltage going through them than they are rated for and the electrolytic medium is drying out way too fast. And clearly somehow your computers are operating beyond their rated voltages d.c. and current capacity. You have had SSE out and they confirm it is not coming from your a.c. supply so the only possible suspect is the PV being the villain of the scene. There should be a label on your PV equipment detailing who installed it. Maybe you should contact them for information. As has been alluded to has your PV been checked lately? Maybe time to do so, or the Landlord should? Clearly beaten to death the idea of computer setup possibilities there is nothing else to consider....

The solar panels have something called and inverter, and if this is malfunctioning it could cause larger or smaller voltages in the consumer unit (in electricians speak, inverter not synchronising to the incoming supply phase exactly)

 

[beachlover]

I found a letter from the solar panel company
They say it is on a different circuit and I remember they seemed reluctant to come out to visit. I guess it was because they had to come from Somerset to iow. A bit expensive to pay a fellow a day's pay for just one house call

Anyway I will insist

Thanks so much everyone you all awesome

 

[HandySparks]

They say it is on a different circuit and I remember they seemed reluctant to come out to visit. I guess it was because they had to come from Somerset to iow. A bit expensive to pay a fellow a day's pay for just one house call

Anyway I will insist

No need to get the solar company to visit. Just turn it off. There should be a switch marked solar AC isolator or similar, or just switch off the relevant circuit breaker.

 

[beachlover]

No need to get the solar company to visit. Just turn it off. There should be a switch marked solar AC isolator or similar, or just switch off the relevant circuit breaker.

Ok I will have a look after work
Or I will ask the electrician on Monday to turn it off
Out of interest how often should those panels be serviced? The housing association has to do yearly checks on the heating and boiler system
Should their be a minimum term for solar panel checks?

 

[Kamikaze]

Who do I ask to check the master sockets
I guess that is openreach?
Phew I don't think I have the linguistic skill to explain all that to BT India

Ohhppss sorry

Since all these computers, routers and powerline adaptors etc have one thing in common, my 2nd port of call, since all the other stuff has been checked, would have been the telephone line. It wouldn’t be the 1st time that a master socket wasn’t fully functional or the line voltage too high. The previous occupier of the property might have had the gain cranked up? Your electrician should be able to check the line voltage with a multimeter, although I’m with Lucien Nunes on this one and think it’s circulating ground currents.

 

[HandySparks]

Slightly off the wall. If you turn of the circuit breaker marked 'Sockets', does this turn off the supply to the sockets supplying your computer(s)?

 

[beachlover]

Yes

Slightly off the wall. If you turn of the circuit breaker marked 'Sockets', does this turn off the supply to the sockets supplying your computer(s)?

Yes....When I look in the box it has a trip switch for each item in my house .
Sockets. Shower. Lights .. and cooker...each have a different switch to flip if it goes off.

I know the sockets are on the same circuit cos when it has tripped before all the sockets in the house go out and I get annoyed because I have to reset the timer on the microwave
The computer goes out too if it trips
Is it relevant??

 

[beachlover]

Since all these computers, routers and powerline adaptors etc have one thing in common, my 2nd port of call, since all the other stuff has been checked, would have been the telephone line. It wouldn’t be the 1st time that a master socket wasn’t fully functional or the line voltage too high. The previous occupier of the property might have had the gain cranked up? Your electrician should be able to check the line voltage with a multimeter, although I’m with Lucien Nunes on this one and think it’s circulating ground currents.

That's interesting
However I do not plug in my computers via Ethernet. Since the three sets of powerline Adam peters (hahhahahaha gotta love Iphone spell check) failed I gave up with a wired internet connection and I only connect them via wifi

I say interesting because I do get a lot of internet drops. However that might just be clouding the issue. BT have investigated my internet drops and the master socket, cable into the house and cable from my house to the telegraph pole have been changed. They have also done a lift and switch at the exchange and switched the DSLAM in the cabinet.

What is a ground current? If I put my computer on the floor rather than on the computer shelf will it be grounded?

 

[HandySparks]

Is it relevant??

Maybe not.

 

[Pat H]

Not sure if I've seen a response about using a UPS to feed the computer and monitor.
It occurs to me that one possible route into the computer maybe via the DVI/HDMI lead.
Could the monitor be at fault and be feeding back down the cable to the Graphics card?
Has the DVI/HDMI cable got ferrite beads on it?
Could you try a different monitor for a while.
When the GPU card is installed is there anything close to those burnt places in the computer?
Tring to establish if all the arcing is on the GPU card or is it between the GPU card and another part of the PC?

 

[beachlover]

Well ok then I'm going back to my original idea;Power quality analysis. If your PV is doing strange things then it would be picked up. I can't really see where or how you can investigate further without such an approach. I think I agree with DavisonP, turn off your PV inverter and see what happens.

I will turn off the solar panel
But to test that the solar panels are the cause of the computers blow outs I need another computer
I have to wait for the refund on the last computer to buy the next computer
It ok to test these theories if you have unlimited computers and unlimited money
I have neither ....
lol
Thank god for warranties
I'm going to run out of computer manufacturers at this rate
Just sayin

 

[beachlover]

I will turn off the solar panel
But to test that the solar panels are the cause of the computers blow outs I need another computer
I have to wait for the refund on the last computer to buy the next computer
It ok to test these theories if you have unlimited computers and unlimited money
I have neither ....
lol
Thank god for warranties
I'm going to run out of computer manufacturers at this rate
Just sayin

I will turn off the solar panel
But to test that the solar panels are the cause of the computers blow outs I need another computer
I have to wait for the refund on the last computer to buy the next computer
It ok to test these theories if you have unlimited computers and unlimited money
I have neither ....
lol
Thank god for warranties
I'm going to run out of computer manufacturers at this rate
Just sayin

I'm done in tonight
But in the morning I will try to get some pics of my box on the wall
And the set up of my computers
Would that help
Any?

 

[soms]

Unless the inverter has some obscure fault which escapes the inverters own protection mechanisms I very much doubt the solar PV is responsible. Will be interested to see what model of inverter is installed.

 

[beachlover]

Not sure if I've seen a response about using a UPS to feed the computer and monitor.
It occurs to me that one possible route into the computer maybe via the DVI/HDMI lead.
Could the monitor be at fault and be feeding back down the cable to the Graphics card?
Has the DVI/HDMI cable got ferrite beads on it?
Could you try a different monitor for a while.
When the GPU card is installed is there anything close to those burnt places in the computer?
Tring to establish if all the arcing is on the GPU card or is it between the GPU card and another part of the PC?

I have a UPS and used it for the computer only and plugged the monitor in the second socket on the double wall socket. Same result fried GPUs.

The modern motherboards I have had on the previous three machines have built in surge protection.

The previous one was Asus

Here

ASUS UK - https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/H110M-PLUS/

And gigabyte motherboard has a failsafe too. This makes the motherboard go into protection mode if it detects a power surge. This happened in both the recent cases of the fried GPUs
Both computers techs from two different companies have told me not to use surge protection as there is no need because the motherboards are so sensitive the can detect even a slight deviation in powrr and go into protection mode

In answer to your questions. I bought new HDMI cables. I don't think they have those little lumps on them. Ferrits? I bthought they were like emi filters?
I also ran the previous computer from my tv and did not use the monitor as I wanted to rule out a problem with the monitor. The same happened running the computer through the tv. GPU failed

I don't know what you mean by anything close to the GPU

 

[beachlover]

Photo of the cupboard

 

[beachlover]

Photo of the cupboard

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I have no idea which one is for the solar panels

So I will have to wait until Monday when the electrician arrives to turn them off

 

[beachlover]

I have no idea which one is for the solar panels

So I will have to wait until Monday when the electrician arrives to turn them off

View attachment 34837

View attachment 34838

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View attachment 34840

 

[beachlover]

Oh and by the way
I just remembered I bought one of these because I thought it could measure dips and surges
It was a desperate attempt to find the problem

However I don't really know how to set it up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...s_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RG88QZX70ATZHS2YYM23

 

[Midwest]

Nought to do with your problem, and probably bottom of your list of things to do, did the electrician say anything about the Wylex mcb in an Eaton CU?

 

[Richard Burns]

The switch labelled solar PV is for the solar PV, nearby you should find an instruction label that tells you how to turn off the solar PV, there should be a local isolator switch labelled AC isolator and another one labelled DC isolator (this may be in the loft or near your inverter), switch off the AC isolator and then the DC isolator, switch off the solar PV circuit breaker.

Oh and by the way
I just remembered I bought one of these because I thought it could measure dips and surges
It was a desperate attempt to find the problem

However I don't really know how to set it up

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...s_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RG88QZX70ATZHS2YYM23

These are simple meters that can tell you how much power you are using at the current time and how much power you have used over a period of time, however it will not indicate anything, at time or provide historical data, about the state of the power supply.

 

[beachlover]

The switch labelled solar PV is for the solar PV, nearby you should find an instruction label that tells you how to turn off the solar PV, there should be a local isolator switch labelled AC isolator and another one labelled DC isolator (this may be in the loft or near your inverter), switch off the AC isolator and then the DC isolator, switch off the solar PV circuit breaker

These are simple meters that can tell you how much power you are using at the current time and how much power you have used over a period of time, however it will not indicate anything, at time or provide historical data, about the state of the power supply.

I can see the end switch says solar PV
I'm not sure about AC isolator or DC isolator. Is it that other box with the big red round thing in my pic

It is prolly best to wait until Monday when the electrician comes

Ah ok
No use then
Perhaps I will sell it

 

[beachlover]

Nought to do with your problem, and probably bottom of your list of things to do, did the electrician say anything about the Wylex mcb in an Eaton CU?

Mmmm I'm clueless what the heck does that all mean?
Anyway I will add it to my list to ask him when he comes on monday

 

[Midwest]

Mmmm I'm clueless what the heck does that all mean?
Anyway I will add it to my list to ask him when he comes on monday

Its a minor issue, but you not should mix different manufacturers products in a CU, unless they say they are compatible. Add it to the list.

 

[The Ghost]

It ok to test these theories

Theories they are indeed, and with or without theories or headscratching or doing nothing at all-you will still have a blown computer. So theories are not hurting or adding to your problems.
Power analysis is a way of establishing some facts. Maybe I am wrong fully accepted and I do offer this very tentatively, but at least you are out of the realm of theory and into facts. What would it hurt to try it, well apart from your bank balance. At least if you turn off the PV you should be able to find out if it is a contributive factor without power analysis.
Maybe your landlord would put something toward power quality analysis monitoring?
I think I would be looking into a Harmonics filter for single phase. The energenie power meter would in no wise give power quality analysis. A meter for this type of work costs upwards of £1500. There are companies that specialise in this. However it is not cheap. And finally it may not be the answer. I promise I wont talk about this again.