Whats happening with youngsters

[SparkySy]

@Andy78
I'm not saying that there arent exceptions to that and to be fair they all had jobs for life!

 

[Outtaluck]

Wow. My mind is blown.

Okay, so we have a new generation of people, aka Millennials, that ate useless. Generally, everyone here agrees. The ideas stated about this undoubtedly lean to the upbringing of these indivuals. I see complaints about can't punish them… those are the results of laws/ordinances passed, which I am pretty sure didn't happen by the generation being degraded while still in their mother's womb.

Secondly, I see discussion about job loyalty, keeping promises, ethics/morals. I see it being, again, the generation is just poor. Okay, so let's take the simple guy going for a job, while he knows that applying for one at a time is a bad idea, he applies for many at once, categorized in his head in most to least wanted. For some strange reason, he probably already knows about job description, thanks to facebook, glassdoor, twitter, etc. So, when the calls come in, he's going to ask for the information pertinent to him to aid in that decision. Probably because he was taught and had it ingrained in him, "Go to school, get an education, so you don't have to live this hard life. Live a life of luxury and have your choice of jobs by going to school."

As far as no call backs after multiple job offers? Does anyone here who is in charge of hiring call back each and every job applicant who isn't a candidate? Absolutely not. But, everyone expects this new generation to at least treat the people handing out jobs as god's simply by offering a job that pays more than the person hiring could make at the applicants age. Nevermind that typically, wages for blue collars don't keep up with inflation. It used to be 25% (1 week)'s check would cover expenses. Now it's 75%. So then people wonder why. This young generation sees nothing more than people getting fired arbitrarily for whatever reason, most probable lack of education, but absolutely no one in the professional fields they work in offer mentorship that means anything… unless, of course, they're getting paid for it. When something dumb/stupid happens, this younger generation hears about how much money they cost the company and then they're told they're out of a job, surmising that money, not people is the most important thing. So, they'll change to be loyal to money.

Then, everyone complains about how weak, no work ethics, uneducated the "youngsters" are today, and we start into the next, "ya know, back in my day I had to walk 10 miles uphill both ways in 6 feet of snow barefoot, and you's think you gonna get off that easy?" I believe the answer to what is going on is the previous generation has made it all about themselves, then expects the impossible from the next, then blaming that younger generation for their own shortcomings.

 

[Darkwood]

We used to have a lengthy thread that addressed the dumbing down of education, I went through college back in the eighties and it was not easy with a pretty high comparable failure rate, since then we have had successive government lowering the educational standards to give good political figures on education, consequently the trades have also had to dumb down the qualifying criteria, we now see apprentices through no fault of their own passing electrical courses with limited maths and physics knowledge and skills, such is the problem across the educational board we have seen companies, universities, colleges been forced to lower the criteria for access and pass rates of the exams, this unfortunately is where we are now so when seasoned sparky reflects on the newer generation it isn't an attack at them directly, it is an attack at the whole education system in general, if one is one of those young ones leaving school then you know no comparison to judge your education, those of us that are now in our 40 + have seen the changes over the decades, I personally have had about 15 apprentices under my wing and the last 15ys has really lost my hope for the industry when we see supposed GCSE passed apprentices that cannot do the basic maths of a 10yr old in my day... this is an industry where that matters and can risk life so in reflection these comments have solid basis that can be shown in government standards and world educational league tables.
Ps - there are always exception to the rules but finding those kids nowadays is harder than ever, so much so I have changed my business model.

 

[westward10]

Another problem being the teachers in the education system are none too bright themselves. It is a flawed system.

 

[Megawatt]

Another problem being the teachers in the education system are none too bright themselves. It is a flawed system.

Another problem being the teachers in the education system are none too bright themselves. It is a flawed system.

Dark you are so right now in North Carolina where I live since no one seems to be able to pass the test in 6 hours and make a minimum of 75, now they have altered the questions, you have 8 hours to complete your test and lowered the passing grade to 70

 

[littlespark]

Billy Joel said it best
“We didn’t start the fire.....”

people are mentioning the dumbing down of today’s education? Have you tried any schoolwork your kids are doing now??

back in the 80’s, computing was a new subject. the school had a room with a dozen bbc acorns. Learning BASIC, and getting a headache of a green monochrome screen.....

now my kids are learning html, coding,.. video editing etc. I can’t keep up.

 

[telectrix]

one of the problems is down to the parents mollycoddling their offspring.... don't get dirty, climbing trees is dangerous, your immune system is useless because we scrub everything with dettol, the world is an evil place, so we won;t prepare you for adult life, but for the time being everything you want will given to you with no effort on your part. it's not all the kids' fault.

 

[Baddegg]

The education system hasn’t kept up with progress either.....exams as a concept are outdated as people no longer need to retain information in the same way anymore they can find out the answer to anything instantly on they phones.......personally I still enjoy reading and learning and testing myself on my ability to recall that info but my older kids both of who are in the top 10 students in a school of nearly 2000 call me a dinosaur ?.....it’s all progress I suppose and the previous generation aren’t supposed to keep up or understand, leave em to it I say they’ll work it out

 

[Mike Johnson]

I was still faster on my slide rule than the majority of young engineers I worked with on their calculators, which they seemed to use the whole time, very few mobile phones around in those days, but I do agree on the dumbing down of the education standards, where did the ONC and HNC go?

 

[KennyKen]

I think it depends on upbringing and Personal situation. I’m 34. Grew up in a rubbish rough east London estate. A place where you grew up quick. We got up to mischief but then you soon realise and see the other side of the
Coin. A time when we found a smack head injecting Nescafé coffee on a stairwell of the local council estate. Times like that which make you think “Geez, The only way out of this mess is to work and grind it out to get out of the area”

As soon as I finished school. My old man threw me out at 5.30am when he was off to work. “If I’m going to work, So are you” couple of days hanging around shopping centres soon got boring. I then went through the yellow pages. Rang a company and spoke to the proprietor. I made my way the the office. Dressed smartly and spoke to him about starting an apprenticeship.

I completed my apprenticeship at 21. The blokes I worked with were old skool.
I remember forgetting pepper for a lunch order was lynching time.
I also remember being spoken to
And treated like rubbish was “ Character Building” but it made me stronger and appreciate the fact, I had a job and it was going to get me out of the mess. I bought
My first house at 24. I had my first child at 21. I took my family to the other side of the world at 28.

 

[Mike Johnson]

For "Character Building" read Bullying or Apprentice initiation some stay scared for life because of it.

 

[Baddegg]

Had more than a few rucks on building sites and dockyard because some fat t£&t thought the best way to teach a kid was to humiliate and bully them......funny how the initiation ritual is reserved for those that can’t/won’t fight back!....never agreed with and never will ive always found that taking the time and talking to the youngsters as equals gets the best results....

 

[ferg]

Honestly I think it's just us getting older.
Every generation is the same moaning about the next one.
I remember being the one getting moaned about 30 some years ago.

 

[OnlQQker]

Building sites were a nightmare...

I managed to put a brick chisel through my hand when I was 17, I totally missed it with the lump hammer and the jagged steel edge of the chisel tore through my hand. I must of passed out.
When I came back to the land of the living the groundworkers had kindly placed me in a wheelbarrow next to the noisy old diesel cement mixer. I worked the rest of the day with my good hand.
When I got home and told my mum we went to A&E then she went up the site the next day and started complaining. She never got anywhere because they all started wolf whistling her.

Groundworkers were something else back then, in a way they taught me the battleground mentality, if it's raining you wont get rusty, don't stand there looking at it, it wont do itself, if it's hard be hard with it!

Oh and the complete A-Z of swear words.

 

[littlespark]

I don’t give a monkeys whether is character building or not... bullying has no place in any workplace.
And as for thumping your hand with a hammer and being left to work it off?? Should have been an A&E job there and then.

 

[OnlQQker]

I don’t give a monkeys whether is character building or not... bullying has no place in any workplace.
And as for thumping your hand with a hammer and being left to work it off?? Should have been an A&E job there and then.

I agree, and I was the directors son of a large building company. Never really got on with my dad though, I was just not interested in becoming a architect, surveyor etc like he had plans for me when he stuck me in Bircham Newton training centre at 15. I got expelled.
The craziness of it all though was I shouldn't of even been in there and still at school. But I guess the masons back then had some clout in places I didn't think possible.

I grew up looking out for people that were bullied, the one big favour he did me was the punches. Kids my age could not hit like he could hit so I never backed down from bullies and stuck up for loads of kids along the way. So I guess he did me a favour in a rather odd way after all.

That's how I look at it anyway though I know none of it was right!

 

[KennyKen]

There were a lot of bullies on building sites years ago, probably due to the lack of repercussions and the lack of “Vetting” which some sites have today.
One hard faced ------- used to rip off conduit runs off the wall with a claw hammer if the conduit wasn’t perfect on the level. Poor young bloke was under the pump and could of easily rectified the issue with a slight tap on the saddle. Just miserable bullies with major personal issues. His wife left him so probably wanted to take it out on the boys.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It' another version of the "Peter Principle" "Everybody is eventually promoted to the level of their own incompetence."

 

[ipf]

I remember, as a kid, working on a social club extension in Sheffield in the 70's during the builders strike. There were about a half dozen builders with us and the plumbers on site. A couple of union blokes turned up and instructed to down tools. It was a private firm so everyone just carried on but the day after a couple of hundred nutters turned up and roughed up the lad in charge and threatened big damage to the site.....proper bullying on a very large scale.
As it turned out, us and the plumbers were allowed to carry on.

 

[Markyd]

Dont tell me what to do....what do you mean get off my phone?...your making me anxious...why do i have to tidy up?...you cant talk to me like that.....The problem is most of them are pussys

 

[DPG]

I remember, as a kid, working on a social club extension in Sheffield in the 70's during the builders strike. There were about a half dozen builders with us and the plumbers on site. A couple of union blokes turned up and instructed to down tools. It was a private firm so everyone just carried on but the day after a couple of hundred nutters turned up and roughed up the lad in charge and threatened big damage to the site.....proper bullying on a very large scale.
As it turned out, us and the plumbers were allowed to carry on.

Some of the old union stuff from the 70s and 80s sounds shocking to be honest.

 

[Pete999]

Some of the old union stuff from the 70s and 80s sounds shocking to be honest.

Depends really, on the Mentor, and the youngster, in my experience, if you keep the Youngster, Apprentice or Lad or Lass with the same Mentor as long as possible, providing the Mentor is a good egg the student will turn out a good un, it's continual changes in their training regime that screws many an Apprentice up, trouble is there is so much pressure on Tradesmen of all disciplines to produce as much profit as possible, there seems to be very little attention paid to training for the future, too much emphasis on fast track BS, someone please bring back the old Apprentice route for building trades, electricians included, how many times do we hear of 24 30 year olds looking for Apprenticeships? on a loser to start with at that age because of the social economic pressure on them.
How many of you have heard of reasonably established Electrical contractors employing a Youngster straight from School, and as soon as they can connect a CU up with a degree of safety and competence, chuck them out on site to run it themselves, it happened to me, but I luckily saw the writing on the wall and got out for a long while to retake Quals, and take more notice of what was available to me, there are many past and present forum members who can attest to this method, one in particular, but he has sadly not posted for a long while, he has his reasons I'm sure, and he is one of the good ones.

 

[DPG]

Depends really, on the Mentor, and the youngster, in my experience, if you keep the Youngster, Apprentice or Lad or Lass with the same Mentor as long as possible, providing the Mentor is a good egg the student will turn out a good un, it's continual changes in their training regime that screws many an Apprentice up, trouble is there is so much pressure on Tradesmen of all disciplines to produce as much profit as possible, there seems to be very little attention paid to training for the future, too much emphasis on fast track BS, someone please bring back the old Apprentice route for building trades, electricians included, how many times do we hear of 24 30 year olds looking for Apprenticeships? on a loser to start with at that age because of the social economic pressure on them.
How many of you have heard of reasonably established Electrical contractors employing a Youngster straight from School, and as soon as they can connect a CU up with a degree of safety and competence, chuck them out on site to run it themselves, it happened to me, but I luckily saw the writing on the wall and got out for a long while to retake Quals, and take more notice of what was available to me, there are many past and present forum members who can attest to this method, one in particular, but he has sadly not posted for a long while, he has his reasons I'm sure, and he is one of the good ones.

I'm not on about apprenticeships Pete. I'm on about union practices.

 

[Pete999]

I'm not on about apprenticeships Pete. I'm on about union practices.

Those were bad days Mate TUs have changed dramatically theses days, do you not5 think?

 

[DPG]

Those were bad days Mate TUs have changed dramatically theses days, do you not5 think?

Hopefully so yes.

 

[Pete999]

Hopefully so yes.

Well from my experience within the TU anybody who is a member of a Union, who was or gas been subjected to bullying in any form would be looked after very well, and I have experienced this duing my time as a TU Rep.

 

[KennyKen]

I’m a union member I believe especially on bigger sites they are better. A voice for the boys.

Pete is right about being with One mentor. I was put with one sparks and eventually worked well as a team. As an apprentice I had to think like him, anticipate what tool he would require and he would just stick his hand out lol.