A rock and a hard place, how to train later in life?

[Kraig]

Hi

I have a load of questions about training, this seemed like a good place to ask.

I'm thinking of dumping my current career. Having completed a house renovation it turns out I quite like electrics. The problem is as far as I can tell if you want a proper career as an electrician you have to start at the bottom, with an apprenticeship, which pays peanuts. Now I'm hardly Johnny big bucks earning about 30k a year but there is no way I can support my family on apprenticeship money so that is pretty much out.

Form what I have read I have a few options

A/

Do one of those 4 week courses that will give me all the paperwork I need to advertise myself as a self employed domestic installer.

That is all I could do but if I'm honest self employed domestic installation is what I was looking for anyway. I'm working on the theory that once I get started I can add to my training and knowledge and that there is going to be bucket loads of domestic work as electric cars and solar panels and all that takes off. If I can find enough local work to keep me busy most days I figure I should be able to earn similar to what I earn now. Does that sound realistic?

This route allows me to build up a local reputation (hopefully good) by taking on smaller jobs whilst maintaining my current employment; until I was in a position to take the plunge and chuck my job in for only a smallish investment.

B/

Do a 2365 part time. Level 2 & 3 together will take 4 years and cost a lot of money. I then still need to do a NVQ lv3 and pass a AM2 test and this is generally done as part of an apprenticeship.

The advantage of this is that it seems to give real options. The disadvantage is it takes ages and I would need to stay in other employment for this time.

Is there anyway to get the NVQ and AM2 whilst maintaining a fulltime job in a different industry or basically without having to earn apprentice money? How long should this bit take?

and lastly a few more questions

What is JIB anyway and what is NICEIC and are they the same thing.
Are there any other routes into the profession?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[telectrix]

It is quite sobering to be in a position where you know you have less ahead of you than behind you.

yup. 70 behoind.only60 more togo. over the hill.

 

[Midwest]

I like good banter, sometimes we just lose ourselves in it.

 

[telectrix]

lost in banter or lost for words??

 

[KEV 1 N]

Some of lads where I work have started later in life, and are employed as labourers and pay for themselves to go to college. I can't imagine 4 weeks training being any good at all (considering an apprenticeship takes 4-5 years!) plus with domestic installer only, you'll be limited to...well domestic but won't be able to work on commercial (shops, cafes etc or 3phase). Plus fault finding, even with domestic installations requires a good knowledge of wiring methods, being able to test and interpret the readings.

 

[telectrix]

Some of lads where I work have started later in life, and are employed as labourers and pay for themselves to go to college. I can't imagine 4 weeks training being any good at all (considering an apprenticeship takes 4-5 years!) plus with domestic installer only, you'll be limited to...well domestic but won't be able to work on commercial (shops, cafes etc or 3phase). Plus fault finding, even with domestic installations requires a good knowledge of wiring methods, being able to test and interpret the readings.

agree. it's not just the theory. it's the practical knowledge, esp. fault finding.

like a job i was on last week. charged him £60. £10 for hitting the motor with a hammer. £50 for knowing where to hit it.

 

[paul291277]

Kraig: Did my C&G 2365 lvl 2 for about £1500 and took me about a year at night school whilst in my previous vocation and walked straight into a job at about £30k as an Electrical Improver; have since done my C&G 2365 lvl 3 (with a government loan called 24+, Google it!) and 17th Edition (£350), which took another 15 months and now earn significantly more than £30k working on commercial and industrial sites. I have no interest in the NVQ3 or AM2 as these seem to be set up as qualifications for the JIB Gold Card which is a requirement to work as a qualified electrician on certain construction sites. My intention is to set up my own business doing domestic electrical work and I visit this site several times daily as I have learned so much more from the experienced members on here than I did in college.

It's achievable, but please forget about a 4 week course,

Good Luck!

 

[FatAlan]

What are you old geezers going on about. I'm the wrong side of 50 and just played two squash matches in one evening! Remember playing a match in my 30's and getting well beaten by a guy who proceeded to tell me he had just turned 70. If you can, staying active is the key.

 

[Kraig]

Thanks Paul291277 but you done that all wrong did no-one tell you you're supposed to answer with a shitty semi patronising music video

Anyway that's exactly the sort of information I was looking to hear. I've been looking at local places that offer the 2365 lv2 all night and the costs and time seem to tally up to what your saying (except the local place that seems to want 1400 a year/2 days a week for 2 years! but I might call them tomorrow as I now suspect that's a mistake) Its great to find out there's a possibility of matching my wage and continuing to train after such a short time span as well.

To everyone that offered helpful commentary, thank you. If anyone has any further input I'm more than happy to read it.

 

[paul291277]

Did both my lvl 2&3 at West Herts College for (officially) 18:30-21:00 (realistically) 18:30-20:00, Tuesday and Wednesday nights. It played hell with my lack of Champions league viewing but was well worth it Must repeat again about the 24+loan from gov.uk, was easy to apply for, no credit check and despite letting HMRC know about it on tax returns for the past couple of years, I don't think I've paid a penny back on it yet

 

[Midwest]

lost in banter or lost for words??

Nope, just Biding My Time

 

[TeeCee]

Just to add my 0.02...

I'm the other side of what you're contemplating. I now have 2365 L2+L3, plus latest 17th Ed. I did it through Able Skills, and took the decision to take their full-time option - but then I don't have a family to support and had savings. If you want to know more about how I did it, feel free to message me directly.

However, I don't agree that the NVQ (the element I'm working on now) is not required. If you want to be earning good money as an electrician - which you seem to - you need to hold a JIB / ECS Gold Card. Without it, you're not graded as an Electrician. To get the NVQ, you need to have passed AM2. To even contemplate the portfolio of evidence needed for the NVQ, you need to secure work - as a Mate or an Improver - to get to do the things you need to do. Ostensibly, the NVQ is the apprenticeship-style validation of the C+Gs. To complete it means you have the practical competencies that match the paper-based competencies.

Almost exclusively, to get onto a job you need an ECS Card. With what I have, I only grade as an Ancillary Operative - Electrical Labourer.

It is also not a shopping list. Even others on the same course as me seemed to see the quals as things to 'square away' - which doesn't afford the qualifications the respect they deserve. But I guess that's a personal gripe...

I was on my course with a chap who had (12 months previously) completed a Domestic Installer course. Said it was a very intensive 4 weeks, at the end of which he felt sure he didn't know enough. He wisely then went to work for someone else (an experienced domestic sparks) for 6 months prior to going it alone. He had moved onto doing his 2365s and NVQ because he wasn't getting the work.

I think ultimately, I'm not saying this to urinate on your sautéed edible tubers - ut thought some info based on my experiences may be of use. The information is both everywhere and nowhere. At least, that's how I felt.

 

[JAWS]

Did both my lvl 2&3 at West Herts College for (officially) 18:30-21:00 (realistically) 18:30-20:00, Tuesday and Wednesday nights. It played hell with my lack of Champions league viewing but was well worth it Must repeat again about the 24+loan from gov.uk, was easy to apply for, no credit check and despite letting HMRC know about it on tax returns for the past couple of years, I don't think I've paid a penny back on it yet

I thought the 24+ loans only supports applications on a level 3 course, not level 2?

 

[Marti]

Funniest most informative thread I've read. Is the F'n'I filter broke
Anyway, all of the above rings true plus one other. I'm sitting in the college canteen, sorry REFRECTORY part way through the 2365. Done six months as an improver and will probably have to do another year; all for less money than I'd make giving duff advice in B&Q. BUT you can not relay the quality of life and potential this skill gives. Site banter, technical challenge and eventually earnings. All with out the grief of a self obsessed incompetent BOSS. Priceless.....and I'm older than anyone one the course. Make it work and you won't regret it.

 

[JAWS]

I agree with everything you say except for site banter. Site work hasn't been the same since the 90's it's like being back at school on many sites.

 

[telectrix]

site work is shyte these days. more idiots on site now than ever. only thing that counts is that cscs/ecs card. as long as you've got one of them, a monkey can get on.

 

[Marti]

'Scuse the slow reply. Revision season on the 2365.
Shyte maybe, maybe not. It all depends on where you've come from. I left a world of management stupidity that is so self serving, the destruction of the organisation is a reasonable price for everyone ELSE to pay in the name of their personal ambition. Where physical violence is acceptable as long as the aggressor is their chosen acolyte. I could bore you into a stupor with details but that's what beer is for. Maybe I've been lucky since I got in this field and due for a disappointment. Nope that what padded bra s are about
(OOOH! There'll be complaints)

 

[MJPD29]

I personally think all of those domestic installer courses are a load of rubbish and are basically DIY with a sheet of paper to say you can do it. The only way to do it is to learn from someone who already knows and it takes time like an apprenticeship. Nothing you learn in any college is like the real world, houses, shops and factory sadly don' have all of their wiring and faults on 1 wall like college did so without proper experience the certificates won't help