Dodgy shower installation

[JDBluetobits]

Hi everyone, I am not an electrician myself but I am after some advice regarding an installation that was recently carried out at my elderly mothers house.

She has recently had a shower installed where there was one many years ago, the pipe work was still usable but no one could find where the old (dead) wiring ran to.

The installer has run a new cable on the surface to the new shower unit and has manually cut the casing to allow entry into the top, the job is far from neat!

My other concerns are about the close proximity of the shower and some existing electrics that were installed in the time after this area was last used as a shower (it has been a cupboard for 12 years).

I would like to hear other peoples opinions on all of this while I decide what should be done about it all.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Spoon]

Did an electrician do this?
Was your mother given an 'electrical installation certificate' for the work?
What did the quote say?

 

[SparkyChick]

Quite frankly cutting a hole in the top of what is a waterproof casing is beyond stupid!

As for the other electrical items, they are within arms reach from with the 'shower cubicle'. If my interpretation of the regulations is correct that's considered as Zone 2 and they shouldn't be there.

Whoever did this is a complete chancer and before it is used for it's intended purpose, it should be reworked by someone who actually knows what they are doing and who understands the basics of fluid dynamics.

 

[ferg]

Oh Dear!

Or words to that effect.

 

[sparksburnout]

I don't know about "fluid dynamics" but who the hell did the tiling??

 

[JDBluetobits]

Thanks all for your replies.

I am lead to believe that the guy is a qualified electrician but I doubt there is any paperwork relating to the install!

The problem is, my mother is suffering from dementia (undiagnosed as yet) and instructs people to do work without any one else knowing, then gets very upset when the reason or quality of the work is questioned. She also has very little knowledge of legal or safety requirements.

At least I now have some professional opinions to back up my own opinion.

 

[westward10]

Who'd have thought the words fluid dynamics would appear on the forum

 

[pirate]

Hmmm...not pretty at all. Oddly, though, I recently fitted a replacement electric shower and although it's really just a newer version of the existing one, it did offer the possibility of top-entry for the cable, via a pre-formed slot-in plastic cutout, with a knockout bit shaped for the cable. I didn't use it, nor would I have as the existing cable is rear-entry, but it got me wondering about the safety aspects. The new unit is much flimsier and the separation between inner and outer casings is less pronounced...I like a nice channel, 2 steps and a good gasket (oo, err, missus...)
However, looking at the unit I removed, the top was quite dusty which says two things:
1. Not been cleaned properly!
2. Never got wet

Paying more attention I noticed that in use the shower spray and reflected spray from my body never threatened to swamp the unit itself, which remained dry except for the front control.
The instructions also stated you should not silicone the unit to the wall, which might be tempting to prevent water ingress, but the cable goes in horizontally to the casing then turns upwards to the connector block which is shielded so I guess that's good enough.
I won't bore you with my tale of phoning the manufacturer's "Helpline" which was tedious in the extreme, got me nowhere at all, and required me to take 2 extra pills that day...

 

[telectrix]

fluid dynamics is always like an app. running in the background on the forum. it's quite simple really. you tilt the glass, the level falls, you refill till it's class ( sung to the tune of Brain Damage, by Floyd).

 

[Pete999]

Oh Dear!

Or words to that effect.

What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Strima]

The problem is, my mother is suffering from dementia (undiagnosed as yet) and instructs people to do work without any one else knowing, then gets very upset when the reason or quality of the work is questioned.

My mum was diagnosed with mixed dementia and Alzheimers a couple of years ago. She had been having memory problems for many years before hand and several thousands of pounds worth of dodgy work done on her house. She had her conservatory redone three times in four years by the same company who have now gone bankrupt and are trading under a different name.

My advice is to get, with her agreement, power of attorney so you can take the reigns when it comes to work being done etc as you can cancel contracts. I would also get her mail on a redirect as you can pick up a lot from unscrupulous traders and charities.

Once one dodgy person finds out she's vulnerable her name will be sold on and that's where the fun starts.

As for the shower installation, the installer needs their dangly bits ripping off.

 

[Octopus]

So the OP needs:

Invoice from Spark
Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC)
Part P notification

here's hoping

 

[Pete999]

I don't know about "fluid dynamics" but who the hell did the tiling??

Same person who did the Electrics and carpentry I reckon.

My mum was diagnosed with mixed dementia and Alzheimers a couple of years ago. She had been having memory problems for many years before hand and several thousands of pounds worth of dodgy work done on her house. She had her conservatory redone three times in four years by the same company who have now gone bankrupt and are trading under a different name.

My advice is to get, with her agreement, power of attorney so you can take the reigns when it comes to work being done etc as you can cancel contracts. I would also get her mail on a redirect as you can pick up a lot from unscrupulous traders and charities.

Once one dodgy person finds out she's vulnerable her name will be sold on and that's where the fun starts.

As for the shower installation, the installer needs their dangly bits ripping off.

Wants disconnecting before it kills someone imo

 

[sparksburnout]

Same person who did the Electrics and carpentry I reckon.

Wants disconnecting before it kills someone imo

It's a wind up, all of it. Come on, nothing can be that bad, please.

 

[telectrix]

It's a wind up, all of it. Come on, nothing can be that bad, please.

yes it can. i've seen worse.e.g. a 6mm T/E feeding a shower from a 30A 3036. no problems till plumber fitted a new shower. the 6.0mm was too shorrt to reach the terminals, so he extended the tails with some 2.5mm stripped out of T/E, twisted and taped. customer wondered why the fuse kept blowing. the wet-pants' joint was a molten mess.

 

[pirate]

Strima, very good advice there re Power of Attorney. Has to be got before dementia takes over, obviously. I don't know the situation in England but here in Scotland you have a choice of a general one or a continuing and welfare one...the latter is the most useful and most requested.
In another life, yes I have seen old folks with problems being ripped off big time, and indeed once fooled they become targets for every "tradesman" under the sun...ie £6,000 to de-moss a 2 bed semi roof etc. That lady's son went looking for the bloke and spotted him on a roof in the next estate...shouted up that he was calling the police, roof guy told him to do something involving procreation and travel...the son promptly removed the ladder...

 

[pirate]

Strima, very good advice there re Power of Attorney. Has to be got before dementia takes over, obviously. I don't know the situation in England but here in Scotland you have a choice of a general one or a continuing and welfare one...the latter is the most useful and most requested.
In another life, yes I have seen old folks with problems being ripped off big time, and indeed once fooled they become targets for every "tradesman" under the sun...ie £6,000 to de-moss a 2 bed semi roof etc. That lady's son went looking for the bloke and spotted him on a roof in the next estate...shouted up that he was calling the police, roof guy told him to do something involving procreation and travel...the son promptly removed the ladder...

 

[pirate]

Oops, sorry, duplicate post...
my mind's not what it was....

 

[Octopus]

When an elderly person asks me for a quote / estimate I recommend that they get somebody else to check it over and / or if a relative is close to call me too.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Oops, sorry, duplicate post...
my mind's not what it was....

Who is applying for the poa for you then if you are loosing marbles? it happened to my mother sadly, only in her fifties but from cancer and all the medication, we had to get poa to handle her affairs. it can save a lot of anguish later on if you get it,

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

When an elderly person asks me for a quote / estimate I recommend that they get somebody else to check it over and / or if a relative is close to call me too.

I get quite a bit of work from a group who provide support to elderly people in their own home, i also do the odd bit of free work for elderly veterans, being ex forces myself i dont mind, but i had to have a interview and whilst not a full dbs check the trading standards had the plod run my details through system... any thing the elderly ask doing i always have confirmed by the support workers. can save a lot of issues later on.

 

[elsparko]

Strima, very good advice there re Power of Attorney. Has to be got before dementia takes over, obviously. I don't know the situation in England but here in Scotland you have a choice of a general one or a continuing and welfare one...the latter is the most useful and most requested.
In another life, yes I have seen old folks with problems being ripped off big time, and indeed once fooled they become targets for every "tradesman" under the sun...ie £6,000 to de-moss a 2 bed semi roof etc. That lady's son went looking for the bloke and spotted him on a roof in the next estate...shouted up that he was calling the police, roof guy told him to do something involving procreation and travel...the son promptly removed the ladder...

honestly dont know how folk can rip off elderly, if i was him id have made my way onto the roof and had a king kong vs godzilla remake

 

[Spoon]

When an elderly person asks me for a quote / estimate I recommend that they get somebody else to check it over and / or if a relative is close to call me too.

But you are a decent bloke and don't want to rip people off....

 

[elsparko]

had a callout to a woman whos water tank had burst, she wanted me to check that none of her appliances would "explode" so i indulged her request and did some PATS

i knew it was a waste of time but some customers i will go above and beyond for

 

[pirate]

I think the fact he was stranded on the roof while the polis arrived was a good solution...the son told them the ladder "slipped"...and they were quite happy to accept that! Apparently, they took statements from the house owner, the son, some neighbours...took a while...LOL!
Turns out the same chancer had charged £800 for an outside security light, which didn't work...he told her it wouldn't work in daylight, but by the time night fell, and it still didn't work, he had vanished...
On a serious note, I applaud the practice of elsparko and gavin john hyde...in my former life I never accepted a contract with a more elderly client signed at the time; always left it for the home owner to show the family first.
On an even more serious note, EVERYONE, (regardless of age/health) needs a power of attorney...seriously, you never know when an accident might leave you disabled, and the family are left battling with social services and with no access to to bank accounts etc. I always got clients to consider POA when making a Will...which is something you also MUST have.

 

[Dave OCD]

Pirate - I can't help but wonder whether the Chancer described was from a certain 'travelling community' - of course I could be completely wrong.

 

[pirate]

Sorry, meant to credit Murdoch there too...good practice by all you guys. Heartening to know there are folks out there who do actually care...
{salute}

 

[Octopus]

Sorry, meant to credit Murdoch there too...good practice by all you guys. Heartening to know there are folks out there who do actually care...
{salute}

I would give you a "Thanks" but the button has gone.

 

[Spoon]

I am lead to believe that the guy is a qualified electrician

OP do you know the guys name?
Is he member of a scheme, like NICEIC....?
How long ago was this work done?
Do you have a receipt for the money payed or any paper work? (Besides the cert, which you don't think your mum got)

 

[Dave OCD]

fluid dynamics is always like an app. running in the background on the forum. it's quite simple really. you tilt the glass, the level falls, you refill till it's class ( sung to the tune of Brain Damage, by Floyd).

View attachment 41026

Funnily enough I was practising some of that type of fluid dynamics on Saturday night, out seeing a Metallica tribute band. They were excellent.

 

[pirate]

Aye, there should be a "thanks!" button! Given the advice I have received on this forum mine would be worn out by now!

 

[Wilko]

Who is applying for the poa for you then if you are loosing marbles? it happened to my mother sadly, only in her fifties but from cancer and all the medication, we had to get poa to handle her affairs. it can save a lot of anguish later on if you get it,

Sorry to hear about Mum, you are right though. Wifey and I have mirror PoA and Wills now. My understanding of Sod's Law means we'll both go on the same day so it'll be wasted effort, or we'll live in good health forever perhaps.

 

[pirate]

Ah Wilko, you have the bases covered! If you die together, all your wishes will be ok...but if one of you has a will and the other doesn't...the law will favour the situation where there is inheritance, rather than intestacy...
in Scots law, where two die in circumstances where it is impossible to tell who died first, it is presumed that the elder died before the younger...unless the younger had a will favouring the elder...oh, this is getting complicated...and that presumption is ignored where the two who die together are husband and wife, in which case it is presumed that neither survived the other...whew!
Get a Will!
Get a POA!
Ignore my legal advice...it's maybe outdated...like me!

 

[Wilko]

Duplicate deleted ...

 

[marconi]

It's sensible to arrange for your mother to write her will while she can and knows what she wants to happen.

 

[pirate]

"Pirate - I can't help but wonder whether the Chancer described was from a certain 'travelling community' - of course I could be completely wrong."
Dave OCD, you are absolutely correct...his somewhat battered white van had no tax or insurance, unsurprisingly.

 

[elsparko]

"Pirate - I can't help but wonder whether the Chancer described was from a certain 'travelling community' - of course I could be completely wrong."
Dave OCD, you are absolutely correct...his somewhat battered white van had no tax or insurance, unsurprisingly.

transit by any chance?

 

[pirate]

Sherpa!