Garage consumer unit rcd trips out

[Pete999]

Not singling you out Mate just answering your post.

Sorry for the abrupt response Middy I was only answering your post, there was not an intention of singling you out, as there was no need to, my quick reply was due to her indoors calling me for tea is ready, and it was Chilli and that is not to be missed

 

[Pete999]

Sorry for the abrupt response Middy I was only answering your post, there was not an intention of singling you out, as there was no need to, my quick reply was due to her indoors calling me for tea is ready, and it was Chilli and that is not to be missed

 

[123]

Finding the fault rather than replacing everything until the RCD doesn't trip is a far better way forward. The fault could be a damaged cable so changing all switches and fittings could achieve nothing

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Well swapped flourecent over to what i know are good units
Still the same result . Rcd trips whilst switching one of the units off.

This now narrows it down for and confirms the following :

The flourecents units work fine as taken them from a different circuit .
The switches are fine as i have fitted light pendants to the circuit that i know is at fault in replacement to the flourecent and they work fine from both ends of the garage.

The fault for me it carnt be a break in the wiring as the pendants worked fine.

As i said before its when you switch the flourecents on and off after about 4 times it trips the rcd out.

For me the issue is inside the garage consumer unit as it carnt be any where else as i have proven this by doing the above.

I think it has got to be some back serge in electric when i switch the flourecent off its got no where to go but to trip the rcd but its only on one light circuit the other light cicuits which i switch on the four other lights individualy doesnt trip the rcd.

Is it because its switched from both ends and the way the wiring has been done in the fuse box.
I can go no further with this as i think there will be little point in getting a larger rcd unit as that wont achieve any thing.

Unless this unit is reaching its upper limit off resistance with these flourecents and putting a bigger unit in will resolve the issue.

For me i think now i need to get some one in.

I was just checking altogether on one mcb i have 6 6 feet flourecents and 2 x 3 feet units on the side wall

I have on the outside of the garage to pir coach lamps and on the back of the garage a spot light but they are on a different mcb so doubt will cause the rcb to be at it maximum?

Thing is it goes off in the daytime so these light wont be switching on in any case.

Time out i think i give up . I get it tested now....

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

If those luminaires causing the issue are on a two way switching, it would be a good idea to replace both switches, to eliminate that possibility.

It carnt be the switches as when i fitted light pendants to the circuit it didn't trip on the switches.

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

It is something to do with a two way switching circuit and these flourecents with this rcd. Carnt be any thing else.

Light pendants work on this two way circuit.
Two flourecent dont. Took flourecents from another part of ceiling of garage and made no difference. Still trips rcd

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Can i just ask you guys this question.
When i got the garage consumer unit fitted and tested by the electrician could he have mis wired this circuit?

What i mean is could he have wired this circuit in to another part of the garage consumer unit by mistake such as the sockets circuit and this might be whats causing the rcd to trip out as its over loading on this one circuit? However i know he has tested the system and took readings as i still have the certificate.
Just a thought. ..

 

[PEG]

At four pages in,would it not be easier to just mount your phone,on the garage ceiling,and i will text you an image of a working lamp...

 

[Octopus]

This is what happens when Kev the kitchen fitter rewires your garage:



For the record he's used 0.75mm flex for the socket circuit!

 

[Des 56]

Reading only the opening post
The description of how its tripping,the very hasty conclusion that the operation of loading to one particular circuit was tallying with the tripping Rcd
Therefore it "must be" the offending (in this case fluorescent fitting) causing the problem

That is a wrong conclusion for you to make
It is not the way to identify a problem or problems, it certainly does not confirm any such thing as a cause ( which was claimed in the first post)
You are probably,not possibly,probably, being sidetracked to the real cause by incorrect assumptions

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

This is what happens when Kev the kitchen fitter rewires your garage:

View attachment 41639

For the record he's used 0.75mm flex for the socket circuit!

What happens when a part p 17th edition qualified electrician does the job, well might just be wired up wrong by a electrician, no surely not electricians are all up to same standards. They never make mistakes . Mmm? I find out sure enough soon.....

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

This is what happens when Kev the kitchen fitter rewires your garage:

View attachment 41639

For the record he's used 0.75mm flex for the socket circuit!

What happens when a part p 17th edition qualified electrician does the job, well might just be wired up wrong by a electrician, no surely not electricians are all up to same standards. They never make mistakes . Mmm? I find out sure enough soon.....

Reading only the opening post
The description of how its tripping,the very hasty conclusion that the operation of loading to one particular circuit was tallying with the tripping Rcd
Therefore it "must be" the offending (in this case fluorescent fitting) causing the problem

That is a wrong conclusion for you to make
It is not the way to identify a problem or problems, it certainly does not confirm any such thing as a cause ( which was claimed in the first post)
You are probably,not possibly,probably, being sidetracked to the real cause by incorrect assumptions

Well i wouldnt of thought if would be that hard to determine from a home owners tests.
Two flourecents that are on two way switching when switching off trips rcd . But when i swap them to light pendants they dont trip the rcd.
So change them to working flourecents from the other side of the garage ceiling and they still trip the rcd suggest to me its not faulty flourecents. And its not faulty switches. Its either a wiring fault or a oversensitive rcd.
Pendants work on these two circuits but flourecents dont. Carnt be that hard to work out. . ......
I get another electrician in to see if he can tell me before i spend any money on components i dont need.

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Reading only the opening post
The description of how its tripping,the very hasty conclusion that the operation of loading to one particular circuit was tallying with the tripping Rcd
Therefore it "must be" the offending (in this case fluorescent fitting) causing the problem

That is a wrong conclusion for you to make
It is not the way to identify a problem or problems, it certainly does not confirm any such thing as a cause ( which was claimed in the first post)
You are probably,not possibly,probably, being sidetracked to the real cause by incorrect assumptions

Perhaps its a good idea to read my last statement rather than just the first one so as not to assume this is the actual case when in fact it isnt and you have commented on the what i have said to early i feel... I DONT BELIEVE ITS THE FLOURECENT FITTINGS AT FAULT! !!!!

 

[Octopus]

What happens when a part p 17th edition qualified electrician does the job, well might just be wired up wrong by a electrician, no surely not electricians are all up to same standards. They never make mistakes . Mmm? I find out sure enough soon.....

That cu was fitted in a garage by a kitchen fitter .... fact

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

That cu was fitted in a garage by a kitchen fitter .... fact

Never said or implying any thing about your example of bad wiring . I am talking about my garage lighting issue. I am saying it could be possible that the electrician who wired my garage consumer unit up could of miss wired two of the cables for the light circuit, hence this is the result. But i would of thought test results and readings would of picked this up . I dont know just asking that what electricians have to do to check, right?

 

[Octopus]

When exactly was your new garage cu fitted?

 

[Des 56]

What happens when a part p 17th edition qualified electrician does the job, well might just be wired up wrong by a electrician, no surely not electricians are all up to same standards. They never make mistakes . Mmm? I find out sure enough soon.....

Well i wouldnt of thought if would be that hard to determine from a home owners tests.
Two flourecents that are on two way switching when switching off trips rcd . But when i swap them to light pendants they dont trip the rcd.
So change them to working flourecents from the other side of the garage ceiling and they still trip the rcd suggest to me its not faulty flourecents. And its not faulty switches. Its either a wiring fault or a oversensitive rcd.
Pendants work on these two circuits but flourecents dont. Carnt be that hard to work out. . ......
I get another electrician in to see if he can tell me before i spend any money on components i dont need.

Just because you have removed inductive loads and stopped or reduced the tripping does not determine the cause of fault,the type of fault and it is certainly not a remedy


Earth leakage problems can be driven by the use of a load on one circuit whilst the fault causing the tripping may be a separate circuit
There may be induced currents generated by the switching of a inductive load
If it were that easy,why oh why would there be a market for expensive specialised test meters?

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

When exactly was your new garage cu fitted?

3 years ago

 

[Octopus]

3 years ago

If it started tripping recently I very much doubt the issue was "created" by the installer of the new CU 3 years ago.

 

[Wilko]

With all the to and fro here, I hesitate to enter. The whole things probably a mess so could be spoilt for choice, but my internet 20p bet is switches too.

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

With all the to and fro here, I hesitate to enter. The whole things probably a mess so could be spoilt for choice, but my internet 20p bet is switches too.

without proper testing equipment etc i am not going any further as whats the point of changing stuff that might not be faulty . when i get a electrician out i post on here what the issue was. doubt its the switches very much as work with pendants on this circuit. i switch either works or it doesnt thats my understanding ........

 

[SparkyChick]

Saying it works with pendants and not with fluorescents therefore it can't be the switch is incorrect. They are different types of load and different things happen when they are switched off.

 

[telectrix]

more effort gone into posting on this thread than rewiring the bloody garage.

 

[Andy78]

more effort gone into posting on this thread than rewiring the bloody garage.

When he turns up it's gonna take the sparky longer to listen to the tales of what's been tried already than actually finding the fault.

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

from a home owners point of view it would of been nice to try and fix the fault MYSELF but gone as far as i can without killing myself as safety is concerned . got a sparkey coming out tomorrow. should be interesting .........lol more money spent

 

[Andy78]

from a home owners point of view it would of been nice to try and fix the fault MYSELF but gone as far as i can without killing myself as safety is concerned . got a sparkey coming out tomorrow. should be interesting .........lol more money spent

Just don't make them look at these threads if they are charging by the hour......

 

[Octopus]

Show the sparky the problem then leave them to it.

Also if they don't have proper test kit and a clamp metre ..... Show them the door!

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

lol

Just don't make them look at these threads if they are charging by the hour......

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Show the sparky the problem then leave them to it.

Also if they don't have proper test kit and a clamp metre ..... Show them the door!

very true . i do that .

 

[telectrix]

the length of time this thread been going, i could have driven the 250 miles, sorted it out, and been back in the local for last orders with £800 in my arse pocket. ( price including travel time and costs)

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

the length of time this thread been going, i could have driven the 250 miles, sorted it out, and been back in the local for last orders with £800 in my arse pocket. ( price including travel time and costs)

well it doesnt help when people keep make none informative comments and stating what they would do with this fault .

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

well it doesnt help when people keep make none informative comments and stating what they would do with this fault .

 

[Octopus]

In post #9 you said you would get a spark in ............ then you started complicating matters by suggesting a variety of random changes ........... then others started to wade in ......................

Me thinks this went off track days ago...

 

[telectrix]

well it doesnt help when people keep make none informative comments and stating what they would do with this fault .

what i would do is fix it. that's how i earn a crust. the ways and means need not concern you. all you need to know is that before a spark came it was broke. after he left, it worked.

 

[Midwest]

I came, I saw, I conquered

 

[Wilko]

Saying it works with pendants and not with fluorescents therefore it can't be the switch is incorrect. They are different types of load and different things happen when they are switched off.

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. But, this assumes all the information to hand is accurate . Just having a cheeky sidebet.

 

[Midwest]

Lets have a sweep stake on what the fault will be. In no particular order;

1. Faulty RCD 1/1
2. Loose terminations 1/1
3. IR fault 1/1
4. Incorrect or faulty wiring 1/1
5. Faulty switches 1/2
6. Faulty fluorescents 1/1
7. Wiring routed inappropriately 1/1
8. Fault on an adjacent circuit 1/1
9. None of the above 1/1
10. OP is imagining things 1/1
11. 'R' in the month 1/1
12. J Corbyn's house, enough said 1/1

Rules;

• OP can't vote
• You can add your own suggested vote, which others can vote on
• Voting closes at midnight tonight
• Winner(s) receive 'Winners' thing

Placed my vote

• IF I'M RIGHT YOU ALL OWE ME £10

 

[SparkyChick]

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. But, this assumes all the information to hand is accurate . Just having a cheeky sidebet.

Just in case you think I was having a go... I kinda was, but not at you Wilko. More the insistence from the OP that it can't be the switches.

My bet is still on loose connections at some point in the circuit, possibly even some minor damage to a conductors insulation that's manifesting itself when the field collapses in the ballast.

I just hope we hear what the fault really is

 

[Midwest]

Just in case you think I was having a go... I kinda was, but not at you Wilko. More the insistence from the OP that it can't be the switches.

My bet is still on loose connections at some point in the circuit, possibly even some minor damage to a conductors insulation that's manifesting itself when the field collapses in the ballast.

I just hope we hear what the fault really is

Too late for that now, place your bets.

 

[SparkyChick]

Here's my vote... sorry, split decision

1. Faulty RCD 1/1
2. Loose terminations 1/2
   
3. IR fault 1/2
4. Incorrect or faulty wiring 1/1
5. Faulty switches 1/2
6. Faulty fluorescents 1/1
7. Wiring routed inappropriately 1/1
8. Fault on an adjacent circuit 1/1
9. None of the above 1/1
10. OP is imagining things 1/1
11. 'R' in the month 1/1
12. J Corbyn's house, enough said 1/1

Edit:- Updated.. hope I've done it right

 

[Midwest]

Here's my vote... sorry, split decision

Grrrgh, you have to amend the voting odds, i.e. 1/1 to 1/2. Never been to the bookies!

 

[SparkyChick]

Grrrgh, you have to amend the voting odds, i.e. 1/1 to 1/2. Never been to the bookies!

Honestly... no... I've never placed a bet in my life.

 

[SparkyChick]

Updated... whether it's right or not

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Lol. I see the humour in this guys. Yes place your bets. Hopefully he find the cause and the fault when he comes . You have 24 hours from now to post your bet lol

 

[Midwest]

Lol. I see the humour in this guys. Yes place your bets. Hopefully he find the cause and the fault when he comes . You have 24 hours from now to post your bet lol

Taken in good faith Karl; but they have only until midnight tonight, i.e. 3hrs & 7 mins from now

 

[Mr Karl E Taylor]

Sparkey has been. very nice chap.
Coming back later next week. Booked in for a few hours with test equipment. As was on the way home so wanted to see what the problem was.
So place your bets for next week.

 

[telectrix]

Sparkey has been. very nice chap.
Coming back later next week. Booked in for a few hours with test equipment. As was on the way home so wanted to see what the problem was.
So place your bets for next week.

i might be dead by then.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

What happens when a part p 17th edition qualified electrician does the job,

There is no such thing. Part P is not a qualification.

 

[Pete999]

There is no such thing. Part P is not a qualification.

Agree, Karl you need to realise part P is a building regulation, and 17th edition qualification is an open book qualification, both of these "courses" are designed to enhance a qualified experienced Electrician's knowledge, they do not make the person sitting these courses an Electrician, it makes those people that think it does into a dangerous combination, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[telectrix]

i just done a 5 day course on how to cut with a scalpel. now i'm a qualified brain surgeon, but can only work on domestic customers. an additional course to work on bankers, solicitors, and estate agents is available at no extra cost.