Discuss MIS 3002 Issue 3.1 and Horizon Chart in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Worcester

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They changed the scope / intro to say you MUST use it from 07/05/2013, instead of from your next assesment (would have allows some people to use the old one up until 06/02/2014 :) )
 
It shows the old rule of thumb; don't put panels where they will be shaded in the middle of winter or during the middle of the day still stands (common sense really!)
If you don't put ANY panels in the shade your shade factor is 1. Anything else and it gets complicated and generally your better off not adding the extra panels as the shade factor means the returns are worse.
 
The rules do seem to heavily penalise say an aerial more than I would expect. In practice, I can't see any of the companies that use commission salesman following this to the letter! And it still allows them to ingore the dirty great big chimney above them becasue they couldn't see it when looking out of tyhe upstairs window!
 
it's a marginal step improvement to turn a really bad system into a slightly less bad, but highly complex and timeconsuming system that's still only accurate to within 10% or so, and is even worse for east or west facing systems.

and yet we're not allowed to give any prominance to far more accurate methods of working this out because MCS has decided their remit is to ensure the industry is leveled down to the level of the most basic installer rather than encouraging excellence and accuracy.... or with the greatest of respect to the 2 main authors, they are both electrical engineers, and devising the best method of calculating accurate performance estimates and shading impact assessments doesn't really fall into an electrical engineers main skill set IMO.

The development of this entire performance estimation method should have been widened out to the industry and consulted upon properly to produce a method that actually works properly, or at least wording it so that those of us who already have developed and use a suitably accurate method are allowed to use that instead of their method. Not being funny, but this actually is directly within my academic skill set (and I'm sure a fair few others as well), and I did makes these points to one of the 2 lead authors in advance, and the offer to assist was made but not taken up.

This is like some sort of half arsed student project that we're all being expected to follow despite knowing how badly flawed it is. It's frankly laughable that they actually use PVGIS satelllite data to produce the average tables for each region, but won't accept us using PVGIS as it's intended, to provide highly accurate localised performance data rather than data with a >15% regional variance around the average data point they've used (in our region).

I also reckon that as it wasn't consulted upon properly, then MCS have no legal right to force this methodology on the industry... but then I'm not a lawyer and can't afford to pay one to confirm this right now.

/rant.
 
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I agree totally.

And, predictably, I'm going to wave the flag for PV Sol Expert again. Shading is actually very complicated and simply saying "Oh look, there's a chimney - I'll make sure I don't put a panel by it" or the other side "That's just a small chimney, I doubt it will shade too much" just isn't good enough in my opinion.

I have surveyed and modelled hundreds of sites and I am STILL surprised by how much or how little certain objects affect performance. Literally moving panels 100mm one way or the other can have a surprising affect on system performance, as can configuring strings differently.
 
The trouble is not all installers take that level of care and attention, and quite frankly don't have a clue so they've had to dumb it down. It's a joke I did start to get involved with the consultation but then realised I had a family to feed and my efforts were best used bringing more work in.

With all simulation tools be it paper of computer it's only as good as the information you feed in.
 
With all simulation tools be it paper of computer it's only as good as the information you feed in.

Could not agree more. This new method just doesn't fit in my the salesperson model. The salesperson is on commission, and they do have a tendency to be a bunch of Shermans. Whatever they do, they'll make the final figure look great. Inevitably, a huge proportion of jobs will be lost to these guys as they explain their higher figures compared to the more accurate figures given by the rest of us (Our panels have diodes, we use a special inverter, our panels deal with shade much better, our panels work from moonlight etc etc etc...)

 

Reply to MIS 3002 Issue 3.1 and Horizon Chart in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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