Unsatisfactory cert who cares

[cliffed]

I’ve seen so many unsatisfactory EICR CERTIFICATION...for so many properties including Schools without remedials taking place.
So how come they get away with it but when you need to sell your house you need to have all the work done.
The latest was a school & the Eicr was conducted by a Company who actually told the Powers to be,a complete rewire was required.
This report is now @ least 18mths old & some remedials are being done right now.
The FI codes are the main reasons for the Certification to be unsatisfactory.

 

[Darkwood]

There is no legal obligation for any homeowner to have an EICR done or to address any electrical issues, it is on the buyer to have any EICR done and from the outcome of that it is down to negotiations on the price of sale if work is needed, there is a misconception fuelled by estate agents that you need to have an electrical certificate, this is not true and the onus for that is on the buyer if they want one.
As for remedial works on existing installations not been addressed, these EICR's are often done for insurance purposes, different insurance companies require different levels of standards on electrical installations, where one may insist on every item been addressed, others will merely stipulate those that may effect the insurance policy.
With regards of your school example, it is hard respond without knowing what the full report says and the reasoning for a suggested full rewire but I find it hard that any report can give that as a sweeping statement, even dated electrics can often be worked around unless there is an imminent risk of shock or fire, also schools work on a budget, it would depend on whether it is state or private and it can take yrs to secure funding for such a large task, not only would this effect the budget but also major disruption, temp' classrooms etc or phased in works over holiday periods, I have seen such works take best part of a decade once they start as they fit them in the 6week holiday period.

 

[UNG]

There is no legal obligation for any homeowner to have an EICR done or to address any electrical issues, it is on the buyer to have any EICR done and from the outcome of that it is down to negotiations on the price of sale if work is needed, there is a misconception fuelled by estate agents that you need to have an electrical certificate, this is not true and the onus for that is on the buyer if they want one.
As for remedial works on existing installations not been addressed, these EICR's are often done for insurance purposes, different insurance companies require different levels of standards on electrical installations, where one may insist on every item been addressed, others will merely stipulate those that may effect the insurance policy.
With regards of your school example, it is hard respond without knowing what the full report says and the reasoning for a suggested full rewire but I find it hard that any report can give that as a sweeping statement, even dated electrics can often be worked around unless there is an imminent risk of shock or fire, also schools work on a budget, it would depend on whether it is state or private and it can take yrs to secure funding for such a large task, not only would this effect the budget but also major disruption, temp' classrooms etc or phased in works over holiday periods, I have seen such works take best part of a decade once they start as they fit them in the 6week holiday period.

That takes me back many years with enabling works carried out in the Easter / Whit holidays or for a few weekends prior to the start of the major summer holiday work, the problem was you never got the 6 weeks as they always wanted a week to 10 days for cleaning

 

[Zerax]

I used to do quite a bit of work in schools too... and those 6 weeks in the summer where crazy ! Often several different trades on-site, all trying to get done in time. To make things even more complicated, you'd suddenly have a load of parents dropping kids off for a week of 'summer holiday activities'... even though you were told nobody was due in ! This was all compounded by the headteacher not having a clue about anything...

 

[cliffed]

There is no legal obligation for any homeowner to have an EICR done or to address any electrical issues, it is on the buyer to have any EICR done and from the outcome of that it is down to negotiations on the price of sale if work is needed, there is a misconception fuelled by estate agents that you need to have an electrical certificate, this is not true and the onus for that is on the buyer if they want one.
As for remedial works on existing installations not been addressed, these EICR's are often done for insurance purposes, different insurance companies require different levels of standards on electrical installations, where one may insist on every item been addressed, others will merely stipulate those that may effect the insurance policy.
With regards of your school example, it is hard respond without knowing what the full report says and the reasoning for a suggested full rewire but I find it hard that any report can give that as a sweeping statement, even dated electrics can often be worked around unless there is an imminent risk of shock or fire, also schools work on a budget, it would depend on whether it is state or private and it can take yrs to secure funding for such a large task, not only would this effect the budget but also major disruption, temp' classrooms etc or phased in works over holiday periods, I have seen such works take best part of a decade once they start as they fit them in the 6week holiday period.

Agree it’s so easy for someone to say REWIRE... suppose responsibility relies on the duty officer/estates manager to get these remedial’s done it’s a shame there’s no real limit on when these are done unlike the landlords certification within a time schedule.

 

[westward10]

In many cases the Report will denote departures from E&WR 1989 and as such they are legally required to act on it as soon as possible.

 

[brianmoooore]

Did the five yearly EICR for a local church for decades. Each time, all the previous fails are still there, plus the odd new one.

 

[cliffed]

Did the five yearly EICR for a local church for decades. Each time, all the previous fails are still there, plus the odd new one.

It’s criminal really I think...why even bother to have one..it’s not achieved anything.

 

[brianmoooore]

They have one because the Church Commissioners require them to. A quinquennial inspection of the whole place.
This is a country church with a congregation of about three on a good day. The person that requests the inspection is over 90, and the rest of the committee isn't far behind.
There's nothing seriously wrong with the electrics. Mostly C3s with a few 'technically' C2s

 

[Dartlec]

I used to do quite a bit of work in schools too... and those 6 weeks in the summer where crazy ! Often several different trades on-site, all trying to get done in time. To make things even more complicated, you'd suddenly have a load of parents dropping kids off for a week of 'summer holiday activities'... even though you were told nobody was due in ! This was all compounded by the headteacher not having a clue about anything...

Sounds like a convenient source of apprentice labour....?

 

[UNG]

Did the five yearly EICR for a local church for decades. Each time, all the previous fails are still there, plus the odd new one.

I recently did an EICR at a local church where my wife is on the committee following on from a 2 hour EICR done by an NICEIC contractor that I was asked to review, that EICR listed unswitched sockets as a C2 because they had no "local isolation" and the only other point was the lack of RCD's on the socket circuits as a C2
Having done a couple of little jobs at the church around 12 months previously I knew there were more issues than the lack of RCD's, having reviewed all the old EICR's since 2004 (which was when they last had any remedial work done) they all missed issues which would have resulted in an unsatisfactory EICR but until the recent one they were all satisfactory. The most obvious issue was the main DNO earth (a collection of 951 clamps on the PILC) and the double pole fused service head which wasn't even mentioned on the certificate issued to cover some additional electrical work back in 2010. I listed 1½ pages observations attracting mainly C3's and some very obvious C2's
It was quite easy to spot that the last few EICR's were copied from the previous one and only goes to show that an EICR can hide a lot of dangers that leaves the person ordering the EICR in blissful ignorance of the unreported dangers that can exist

 

[Mike Johnson]

It was quite easy to spot that the last few EICR's were copied from the previous one and only goes to show that an EICR can hide a lot of dangers that leaves the person ordering the EICR in blissful ignorance of the unreported dangers that can exist

The person asking for the EICR normally has little or no knowledge of what is being done or what the paper work says and has to rely on the expertise/professionalism of the electrician carrying out the work, thinking about this, do we ever ask for a breakdown of the work a mechanic has carried out on our cars, especially on the brakes, this could be more (personally) immediately life threatening.

 

[Zerax]

I've seen too many 'error strewn' and 'half hearted' EICRs... I now assume that every EICR is nonsense, unless I know who the tester is, or I've done it myself.

 

[loz2754]

So Mike, you're maybe suggesting a shakedown on brake breakdowns?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Having had brake failure in a Lotus Elan I don't take brake's lightly, or even firmly.