What's this?

[Calonyddraig72]

I'm guessing this is a junction box, but my question is, is it safe? It looks ancient?

 

[static zap]

Not sure I like the RED spiders web hanging out of it ..
(will have a closer look in morning)

 

[Lister1987]

Looks like a standard hockey puck junction box

 

[Calonyddraig72]

Looks like a standard hockey puck junction box

Just had a look online and I guess they're still available to buy but should it have that amount of wires sticking out?

 

[Pete999]

Pretty normal back in the day

 

[buzzlightyear]

Looks to me a giant spider, ugly looking thing can't see it's eyes.. Lol

 

[7029 dave]

Looks like a J601 ashley JB , used loads of them.

 

[SJD]

As mentioned, a pretty standard junction box.

There should not be any red or black basic insulation visible outside the box, I can see a few bits.

The earths don't look too securely connected, nowadays they would be sleeved green/yellow and in their own terminal. If one of these earths comes loose and disconnected, you could loose the earthing to a significant part of the circuit.

There is no strain relief for the cables - well actually there old buckle clips but they seem to have been undone. Someone tripping over one of the cables or pulling it, and connections can be pulled out of the screw terminals.

If you want a modern way, look up Wago connectors and Wagobox (there are other brands).

 

[DPG]

Agree with SJD. If you do nothing else then at least connect all the bare earths together with a decent connector.

 

[Calonyddraig72]

As mentioned, a pretty standard junction box.

There should not be any red or black basic insulation visible outside the box, I can see a few bits.

The earths don't look too securely connected, nowadays they would be sleeved green/yellow and in their own terminal. If one of these earths comes loose and disconnected, you could loose the earthing to a significant part of the circuit.

There is no strain relief for the cables - well actually there old buckle clips but they seem to have been undone. Someone tripping over one of the cables or pulling it, and connections can be pulled out of the screw terminals.

If you want a modern way, look up Wago connectors and Wagobox (there are other brands).

Thank you. I was just tidying up the flooring in the in the attic and came across it. I'm just finding lots in this house that don't look great to me so I'm asking questions about safety and how up to date these things are.

 

[pirate]

Yes, I spotted the buckle clip...I quite like them, actually, they have their uses

 

[Calonyddraig72]

Yes, I spotted the buckle clip...I quite like them, actually, they have their uses

Given that I'm not an electrician and not heard about some of the things being mentioned before, are the buckle clips purely for holding cables in place or do they serve any other purpose?

 

[Pete999]

Given that I'm not an electrician and not heard about some of the things being mentioned before, are the buckle clips purely for holding cables in place or do they serve any other purpose?

For clipping cables Mate

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It appears to be a 6-terminal junction box that is part of the lighting circuit. The type of junction box in itself is OK so long as it is accessible for inspection. If it is not accessible under normal conditions, it would not be considered compliant with the current wiring regulations, as it is not a 'maintenance-free' type. However, that does not make it unsafe per se.

Unfortunately it has been badly wired. The CPC (earth) conductors of the cables are twisted together outside the box. This was fairly common practice but was never correct or compliant with the regulations, because the twisted connection is not secure or reliable and a loss of continuity could lead to shock risk at the lighting points in the event of a fault. It was done to save time and cost, as a correct installation of ten cables would require a larger (or multiple) boxes. Also, the cables are not adequately secured, the edge of the box appears broken and there is basic insulation showing. I suspect with the number of cables fitted it will be a pig's ear of a job inside.

Shoddy work, may not be immediately dangerous but worth having sorted out. Commissioning an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) on the whole installation might be a good idea.

 

[Calonyddraig72]

It appears to be a 6-terminal junction box that is part of the lighting circuit. The type of junction box in itself is OK so long as it is accessible for inspection. If it is not accessible under normal conditions, it would not be considered compliant with the current wiring regulations, as it is not a 'maintenance-free' type. However, that does not make it unsafe per se.

Unfortunately it has been badly wired. The CPC (earth) conductors of the cables are twisted together outside the box. This was fairly common practice but was never correct or compliant with the regulations, because the twisted connection is not secure or reliable and a loss of continuity could lead to shock risk at the lighting points in the event of a fault. It was done to save time and cost, as a correct installation of ten cables would require a larger (or multiple) boxes. Also, the cables are not adequately secured, the edge of the box appears broken and there is basic insulation showing. I suspect with the number of cables fitted it will be a pig's ear of a job inside.

Shoddy work, may not be immediately dangerous but worth having sorted out. Commissioning an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR) on the whole installation might be a good idea.

Shoddy work is exactly what I thought, and the fact it doesn't look neat and tidy is another reason I wanted to check it. Especially when it comes to electrics and bare wires. Is this something a competent diy'r could change with the right equipment, junction box and a bit of research?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

In principle, a competent DIYer should be able to change a faulty or damaged electrical accessory or component of an installation that is known to be in generally sound condition. What you are up against here is a bit more challenging, because the general condition of the installation is unknown and there might be hidden flaws that you will not spot without the proper test equipment and experience in using it. You might make an excellent job of reworking a junction box while remaining blissfully unaware that the earthing or insulation has failed elsewhere, resuting in reinstating and re-energising a defective circuit, perhaps under the impression that it is now safe or at least safer than it was.

I would suggest that before changing or rectifying anything, an EICR undertaken by a competent electrician would give you a road map.

 

[Calonyddraig72]

In principle, a competent DIYer should be able to change a faulty or damaged electrical accessory or component of an installation that is known to be in generally sound condition. What you are up against here is a bit more challenging, because the general condition of the installation is unknown and there might be hidden flaws that you will not spot without the proper test equipment and experience in using it. You might make an excellent job of reworking a junction box while remaining blissfully unaware that the earthing or insulation has failed elsewhere, resuting in reinstating and re-energising a defective circuit, perhaps under the impression that it is now safe or at least safer than it was.

I would suggest that before changing or rectifying anything, an EICR undertaken by a competent electrician would give you a road map.

Brilliant. Thank you. ☺

 

[Vortigern]

Well I know that was not mine because I always used to put earth sleeving on my outside the box earth. It was a long time ago, I was only doing what the guy who trained me told me to do!

 

[Dustydazzler]

The real pros twisted the earths to the rear of the JB in a neat twist with pliers and nipped off any excess...

that one looks carp

 

[static zap]

.... twisted the earths .....

I'm getting to understand where these habit s came from.

A technique from the past.

 

[Mark Wright]

Is a JB under floorboards considered accessible? and finally is there any difference with a box in terms of accessibility with a modern wago box being hidden away ?

 

[DPG]

Is a JB under floorboards considered accessible? and finally is there any difference with a box in terms of accessibility with a modern wago box being hidden away ?

No, that is not classed as accessible. Would need an MF junction box.

 

[davesparks]

Is a JB under floorboards considered accessible? and finally is there any difference with a box in terms of accessibility with a modern wago box being hidden away ?

It is up to the opinion of the individual and the circumstances but generally no it would not be considered accessable.

 

[Micktw68]

The real pros twisted the earths to the rear of the JB in a neat twist with pliers and nipped off any excess...

that one looks carp

Definitely looks fishy.

 

[Baddegg]

I agree it’s not accessible anymore than a bath panel that needs a tool to remove......I think “Chris” classes them as accessible in one of his videos....so as @davesparks says matter of opinion...

 

[Calonyddraig72]

Further to my original post, this junction box has 10 cables/wires going into/coming out of it. Is that normal for such a box?

 

[DPG]

Further to my original post, this junction box has 10 cables/wires going into/coming out of it. Is that normal for such a box?

No it's not. It has probably been added to over the years. Would be better if it was replaced with a modern multi way equivalent. Either with strain relief or with the cables clipped securely.