Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire

[SJD]

The cables should still have something over them, capping, tube or the like

Depends, the capping or oval conduit is more to keep the plasterer from damaging the cables with their trowel.

One builder I sometimes work alongside, prefers to avoid capping as it tends to bulge and can lead to thin patches of plaster. But his guys are careful and can work with cables just clipped to the bricks/blocks without damaging them.

 

[dinger809]

Not always needed at all and definitely not indicative of a bad job.

I’ve not said the regs demand it, but as I said to another, in my opinion it should be done and shows a lack of professionalism and personal pride leaving the cables like that. It does protect them to during plastering and just feels (in my humble opinion) more professional

 

[Rpa07]

That brown doesn’t even look like it’s been clamped so the tug test probably wasn’t carried out. I know the electrician and his mate need to defend themselves so not wishing to come down heavy.
Is 2 days a bit of a rush for a full rewire with two of them. I feel it would lead to some sloppiness and with a want not to return to second fix but to do it all in one instead speaks of greed to me and not customer satisfaction.
I hope he steps up and puts all right and proves us wrong, for the sake of the trade.

 

[Sarah123]

Hi, looking at those pics, putting back boxes in solid walls, you nearly always end up with larger holes than the boxes, due to the nature of brick/block work and plaster breaking off.
As others have said, fixing the face plates back, should be done after the plastering and painting has been completed.
As for the live coming out, with all due respect, if this had been fixed I’m securely (I always give my conductors a good tug to ensure they’re secure) it shouldn’t have happened, even if the plasterer has pulled the socket, as this could happen to anyone taking off the face plate in this instance.
A loose conductor should have been detected during testing, with a higher resistance reading. It would be interesting to see the schedule of test results for this circuit

Thanks - that's a good point. We could ask for the schedule of test results. I'm hoping he'll be bringing some paperwork on Monday.

 

[Baddegg]

I would take some solice in the fact that if 2 people rewired a 3 bedhouse in 2 days they fairly experienced Sarah, if a little hasty,

 

[Sarah123]

That brown doesn’t even look like it’s been clamped so the tug test probably wasn’t carried out. I know the electrician and his mate need to defend themselves so not wishing to come down heavy.
Is 2 days a bit of a rush for a full rewire with two of them. I feel it would lead to some sloppiness and with a want not to return to second fix but to do it all in one instead speaks of greed to me and not customer satisfaction.
I hope he steps up and puts all right and proves us wrong, for the sake of the trade.

Thanks all for your replies - it's definitely helped us feel more justified in the concerns we have, but helped us to know what is reasonable to expect in terms of cutting out etc. All much appreciated

 

[Leesparkykent]

The chasing does look sloppy but the installation could be fine. To be totally honest the cock up seems like, lack of planning/naivety on your behalf which the electrician shouldn’t be held countable for imo. The installation could be turned off, unscrew the accessories, pull them forward, sandwich bag them up, plasterer can make good then screw the accessories back. Plasterer is probably making a mountain out of mole hill because his work looks rubbish!

 

[Blaspark]

Thanks all for your replies - it's definitely helped us feel more justified in the concerns we have, but helped us to know what is reasonable to expect in terms of cutting out etc. All much appreciated

Contact us - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/Contact-Us
I wouldn't trust them to put it right. Contact their scheme. Ask them to help. Contact your local council and complain about people operating like that in the local area ask your council to liase with the scheme as well.

 

[Blaspark]

The chasing does look sloppy but the installation could be fine. To be totally honest the cock up seems like, lack of planning/naivety on your behalf which the electrician shouldn’t be held countable for imo. The installation could be turned off, unscrew the accessories, pull them forward, sandwich bag them up, plasterer can make good then screw the accessories back. Plasterer is probably making a mountain out of mole hill because his work looks rubbish!

If the electrician didn't test he should have made it very clear not to use the power. Either she's lying or the spark should be out of business. This is a Web forum, we can't decide

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Contact us - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/Contact-Us
I wouldn't trust them to put it right. Contact their scheme. Ask them to help. Contact your local council and complain about people operating like that in the local area ask your council to liase with the scheme as well.

Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat

 

[Blaspark]

Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat

It's unsafe work and taking advantage of unsuspecting members of the public that get my goat. I'm well aware of the standards on this forum. Your attitude doesn't surprise me

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hold on there mate.A bit OTT.So for screwing accessories on too early they need reporting to numerous organisations for this heinous crime? Get a grip.It's posts like this that get my goat

Spot on.

 

[Blaspark]

Spot on.

You can say what you like. Unsafe is not allowed. You guys are acting like bullies. The electrical work is dodgy and she's out of her depth.

 

[Blaspark]

You can disagree all you like but show me how that's OK. I can show you where it's not acceptable.
The standards on this forum are ridiculous.

 

[Leesparkykent]

It's unsafe work and taking advantage of unsuspecting members of the public that get my goat. I'm well aware of the standards on this forum. Your attitude doesn't surprise me

I take it the unsafe bit is the fact the line conductor has come out? For all you know the plaster could of been yanking it around left, right and center. Because it’s been 2nd fixed before its been plastered you think it’s acceptable to report the contractor to the their scheme and also the local council....Have a word

 

[Blaspark]

The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.

Why do I get called dumb for stating what this fella and any reasonable person would state

 

[Deleted member 105166]

Don’t jump the gun, the guy is coming back on Monday to see his customer and hopefully rectify her concerns.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Don’t jump the gun, the guy is coming back on Monday to see his customer and hopefully rectify her concerns.

Exactly that.

 

[Blaspark]

What's the term we often use for competent person schemes on this board and in the industry generally? Is it scam?
It wasn't done right. It was unsafe. If it was tested when it was finished where are the certificates. If there's no certificate did he inform her, in writing to cover his back, not to switch it on?
Does safe locking off include for example a lock?

 

[Leesparkykent]

What's the term we often use for competent person schemes on this board and in the industry generally? Is it scam?
It wasn't done right. It was unsafe. If it was tested when it was finished where are the certificates. If there's no certificate did he inform her, in writing to cover his back, not to switch it on?
Does safe locking off include for example a lock?

why shouldn’t it of been switched on, if all tested and screwed back?

 

[Spoon]

For all you know the plaster could of been yanking it around left, right and center.

From the pic, it wouldn't have taken much for the cable to come out, as it looks like it's only had connection at the tip of the wire.

Lets see what he has to say on Monday.

 

[Leesparkykent]

From the pic, it wouldn't have taken much for the cable to come out, as it looks like it's only had connection at the tip of the wire.

View attachment 47971

Lets see what he has to say on Monday.

Yes but could of also tested fine and it was just a poor termination?

 

[Blaspark]

Yes but could of also tested fine and it was just a poor termination?

Was this your job or something?

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

I'm off to get some popcorn as I think this thread will be going for a while

 

[Leesparkykent]

Was this your job or something?

No.....why?

 

[KEV 1 N]

Many moons ago as an apprentice, I had my spell on “house Bashing” Four of us, 1 electrician, 2nd and 3rd year apprentices and a labourer. We could rewire a house in a day, mostly done by 2/3 o’clock, some times we were there till 8pm!
We would chop out, fix boxes, wire, cap then 2nd fix in the day, the plasterer would follow the next day....this was standard on Housing Association properties. Not ideal but it is done that way.
So 2 electricians over two days is about the same pace.

The chasing isn’t the best but it certainly isn’t bad.

The melted socket is likely to be caused by what has been plugged into it (plasters 110v transformer would be my guess)

The loose wire is a bit more worrying and is probably down to rushing. Proper testing should have detected that issue.

The SWA going in front of skirting.....who knows why, perhaps there was something obstructing the route behind the skirting or being in a rush it was quicker to put it in front

 

[westward10]

Was this your job or something?

I have seen some stupid comments but that takes the biscuit.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have seen some stupid comments but that takes the biscuit.

Bit of a school boy comment wasn’t it....Thought I was back in the playground

 

[Deleted member 105166]

If a customer is unhappy with any trade’s work or service, the first course of action is to approach the company or individual to discuss and agree remedial work. I don’t understand why @Blaspark is suggesting reporting the electrician to their scheme, the council, etc. particularly when the sparky has already arranged to go back on site. If he/she could not be contacted or had been dismissive that would be a different case, but that’s not what Sarah has outlined here. Anyway, even if the scheme were notified, their first course of action would be to contact their member, whom would rightly say the job is not yet finished and there’s a visit already arranged with the customer for Monday. No further action is needed at this stage.

 

[The Ghost]

Hi @Blaspark you do have a point but this is not a war. I think you are saying exposed live parts/sockets should not be left for the client to deal with. You are correct. Is that right?

 

[Cid]

Good plasterers would normally unscrew the accessories and cover it up with masking tape before plastering.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Proper testing should have detected that issue.

The line conductor that pulled free probably won't have shown up in tests. The screw seems to have indented the copper (albeit in the wrong place) so there would have been a solid metal-metal connection when the testing was done. It was mechanically weak because it wasn't inserted far enough into the terminal.

The problem with this issue is that while it is probably a one-off, it could also point to a bad termination technique on the part of one of the installers, who might simply not be in the habit of tug-testing etc and might have done the same in other fittings.

The burnt socket could be anything, possibly the plug that was inserted. If the front of the socket is more burnt than the terminals at the back, it wasn't the electricians' fault. If the terminals are badly burnt, I would suspect another inadequately inserted cable and would then be keen to have all accessories checked. OP- you wouldn't necessarily expect anything to trip due to bad contact that causes overheating. The MCB would trip in the event of a short-circuit, and the RCD in the event of a leakage e.g. shock to a person. Means to detect this kind of fault (AFDDs) are just being tentatively introduced. They have to be pretty sophisticated to tell the difference between a heater heating up and a plug heating up!

 

[telectrix]

2 days, 2 blokes. rushed job, i'd have allowed a week for 2 skilled sparks to do the job right. ( used to be 4 days, but at 72 i is slowing down a bit, knees and back refusing to obey brain ).

 

[Risteard]

Proper testing should have detected that issue.

I wouldn't agree there. To be honest inspection would be far, far more likely to pick that up than testing. If there was fortuitous contact between the conductors during testing there is no likelihood of finding that through test readings. It's possible to pick up poor contact resistance but it really depends how the two conductors are seated. If the contact is good between them (though not securely screwed together) I don't think passing 200mA through them will tell you much.

 

[telectrix]

basically old scholl like what i was taught. wriggle and pull.if it don't come out, it's good. sod these digital devil's overpriced MFTs. eyes have been finding faults long before the LCD screen with half the characters missing were invented.

 

[dinger809]

I wouldn't agree there. To be honest inspection would be far, far more likely to pick that up than testing. If there was fortuitous contact between the conductors during testing there is no likelihood of finding that through test readings. It's possible to pick up poor contact resistance but it really depends how the two conductors are seated. If the contact is good between them (though not securely screwed together) I don't think passing 200mA through them will tell you much.

Tug test, works every time

 

[DefyG]

Was the property occupied (ie were you living there) whilst the work was being done? As sometimes to maintain heating/power/lighting etc.within the property some second fix is inevitable.
The armoured cable being glanded into the bottom would be exposed for about 200mm before it could be routed behind skirting in any case, but maybe the sparks thought a unit might be built in front of the consumer unit!
The loose wire, most likely a poor connection (as others have said) which pulled out when pulled forward by the plasterer.
The overheated socket, most likely a loose connection in the plug top!

 

[DPG]

Oooh, he said plug-top. Just you wait, George will be along shortly.

 

[Midwest]

Tug test, works every time

That is just being gullible to think all think it will be perfect. Bit like being sure the fridge light is off, when you shut the door.

 

[dinger809]

I wouldn't agree there. To be honest inspection would be far, far more likely to pick that up than testing. If there was fortuitous contact between the conductors during testing there is no likelihood of finding that through test readings. It's possible to pick up poor contact resistance but it really depends how the two conductors are seated. If the contact is good between them (though not securely screwed together) I don't think passing 200mA through them will tell you much.

Tug test, works every time

That is just being gullible to think all think it will be perfect. Bit like being sure the fridge light is off, when you shut the door.

The tug test will make sure it doesn’t come out, is what I was saying