Discuss Advice wanted - unhappy with rewire in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
Hi all

Hoping I could get some independent advice on here. We've just bought our first property and had to get a full house rewire on the property (3 bed semi). Our electricians had finished the work within 2 days (2 electricians working on it). When asked when they were coming back, they said they didn't need to come back for a second fix as they'd finished it all. As we didn't know any better, we assumed all was fine and paid up because that said they wouldn't give paperwork till payment was made.

Since then, we have had a few issues. Our plasterer has been really surprised at the poor standard of work - they have had to plaster around all sockets and spotlights in kitchen.

1. The holes made to put in the sockets are generally quite a bit larger than the face of the external socket casing.
2. One of the sockets had a loose wire that was not connected when the plasterer was plastering around.
3. Another socket melted the builder's plug (smoke coming out as well), but didn't activate the trip switch.
4. An armoured cable they put in to light the garage is coming out of the consumer unit and through the floorboards in the bedroom in front of (rather than behind) the skirting board.
5. No paperwork 3 weeks after despite chasing him for this before everything else happened.

Would really appreciate any feedback as not sure if these are common or we really are within our rights to be taking this further? We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening, but his general response is telling me that he's blaming the plasterer's work.

Thanks!
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
Hi baddegg - good idea!

20190223_094844.jpg
armoured cable in front of skirting board

20190223_114949.jpg
wire disconnected

20190223_112101.jpg
A couple of examples of cutting around sockets.
20190223_111938.jpg

20190223_094717.jpg
Melted plug socket

Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
As in all these things, you have to allow the tradesperson to finish their work.
Thanks midwest- they've finished and it's been paid for. It doesn't sound like they want to do much else from the response we've had so far.
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
i have a mate in Leeds. NICEIC approved contractor, who hates seeing. shoddy work by cowboys. if you want, I can ask him to call and give you an unbiassed opinion.
Thanks Telectrix - will see what happens and if we need to take it further, will message.
 

telectrix

Scouser and Proud.
Respected Member
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60,293
Location
cheshire/staffordshire
not after seeing those pics. SWA in front of skirting board, ans did they use a JCB to cut out the sockets?
 

Midwest

Electrician's Arms
Messages
11,175
Location
Oxfordshire
Thanks midwest- they've finished and it's been paid for. It doesn't sound like they want to do much else from the response we've had so far.
You said 'We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening'.
 

telectrix

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Respected Member
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60,293
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cheshire/staffordshire
it all looks arse about face to me. why have they fitted sockets before filling and plastering has been done?
 

Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,282
Location
Portsmouth
As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
You said 'We tried contacting the electrician a couple of days ago, but he's not able to come till Monday evening'.
Yes I sent a detailed message with all the concerns and a couple others. He said the plasterer probably pulled out the wire while plastering and it's necessary to remove that much wall to get to sockets. He didn't respond to the other points, but like I said he's coming over Monday. I just want to know whether we should be arguing this on Monday or we're just clueless first time homebuyers! Is it normal to not do a second fix?
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?
No - he just told us it wasn't necessary... not knowing any different, we went along with it.
 

Baddegg

Still simmering Ken, not boiled yet buddy x
Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,282
Location
Portsmouth
Well I wouldn’t second fix till after the spreads been in, but not unheard off.......unless you like ya sockets full of gypsum
 

Gavin John Hyde

Electrician's Arms
Messages
2,634
Location
Somerset
the holes might not be the tidiest but in fairness some walls when you chase them out crumble and lumps come out. the chasing doesn't look that bad to be fair from what I can see on the cable runs.
what was specified or agreed with how the armoured cable will be installed as from what i see the reason its in front the skirting board is because it comes out directly above from the consumer unit. even if behind it will still need to come out the wall a few inches below the bottom.
 

plugsandsparks

Electrician's Arms
Messages
1,454
Location
Chesterfield
That wire that has come out could well be live !!

I dont do domestic, but when i did, it was traditional to do first fix before the plasterer and 2nd fix after, painting could be done before 2nd fix or after, i preferred after because i am a bit nervous about marking the paint when 2nd fixing, its so easy to do.
Others may well comment on whether this method of 1st and 2nd fix before plastering is progress in the industry
 

Andy78

Respected Member
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8,393
Location
Kingston upon Hull
The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.
 

GMES

Hairy and proud
Staff member
Admin
Messages
8,764
Location
Under the banana tree.
Write down all your concerns and then share them with the Electrician on Monday.
It's very important to give him chance to put his side across and if need be put the things right before going down any legal routes.
If he is totally dismissive or rude and refuses to do anything about it , then you take things further.
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
As others have said not tidy but not as bad as it could be and in the sparks defence the loose wire could’ve been caused by anyone moving that socket front.....did you agree to him second fixing before the spreads had been in?
No - he just told us it wasn't necessary... not knowing any different, we went along with it.
the holes might not be the tidiest but in fairness some walls when you chase them out crumble and lumps come out. the chasing doesn't look that bad to be fair from what I can see on the cable runs.
what was specified or agreed with how the armoured cable will be installed as from what i see the reason its in front the skirting board is because it comes out directly above from the consumer unit. even if behind it will still need to come out the wall a few inches below the bottom.
There wasn't a conversation about where the cable would go, so we didn't agree or not agree to that. I guess the whole unit will have to be boxed over, just wondering if that's standard practice.
The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.
Yeh - this wasn't agreed or disagreed. They just told us they wouldn't be back for a second fix as it wasn't necessary. We've only realised how much of an issue it's become since the plasterer is having a hard time covering round it... and how much easier (and better it would look) if things were done in order.
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
Write down all your concerns and then share them with the Electrician on Monday.
It's very important to give him chance to put his side across and if need be put the things right before going down any legal routes.
If he is totally dismissive or rude and refuses to do anything about it , then you take things further.
Yes this definitely sounds fair - I've emailed him a list and we will discuss it further in Monday. Just concerned that he didn't really seem to think any of it was a problem. I guess we'll see how the conversation goes Monday.
 
OP
Sarah123

Sarah123

EF Member
Messages
15
Location
Leeds
The second fix has been done. That is the connection of all the accessories, testing, and energising.

This should not have been done ahead of the plastering but that is down to what arrangements were in place between you and all trades.

You should have received an EIC and building control paperwork.... keep pestering them for this, all in written form, and if they ignore you it's time to get in touch with trading standards and/or the scheme that your electrician belongs to.
Also how quickly is paperwork usually done? It's been three weeks and I checked on NICEIC (who they're registered with) and no work's been registered...
 

Andy78

Respected Member
Messages
8,393
Location
Kingston upon Hull
I'll have finished a first fix rewire by the end of Tuesday. Plasterers are coming in to fill my chases and skim every wall after that. Customer asked if I could second fix before the plasterer but I refused because it will make the plasterers job more difficult and probably result in soiled/damaged accessories.
That's how it should be to my mind. The quality of the finished job is worth more than getting my final invoice in early.
 

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
Hi, looking at those pics, putting back boxes in solid walls, you nearly always end up with larger holes than the boxes, due to the nature of brick/block work and plaster breaking off.
As others have said, fixing the face plates back, should be done after the plastering and painting has been completed.
As for the live coming out, with all due respect, if this had been fixed I’m securely (I always give my conductors a good tug to ensure they’re secure) it shouldn’t have happened, even if the plasterer has pulled the socket, as this could happen to anyone taking off the face plate in this instance.
A loose conductor should have been detected during testing, with a higher resistance reading. It would be interesting to see the schedule of test results for this circuit
 

Bob Geldoff1234

Somewhere,somehow,someone's going to pay
Messages
292
Location
Blackpool,Lancashire.
I will weigh in here with my opinion.In general,from the photos,it doesn't look a bad job at all.There are grommets in the boxes,sleeved earth wires etc.The main issue is that they have put the socket fronts on before the plasterer has done his bit.Also the swa in front of the skirting could have been done better but generally a cupboard would be built around the consumer unit and wiring which would cover the swa,so really it's not too big a problem.
The wire coming out of the socket is due to the plasterer pulling it too far forward and yeah it should have been tighter.
The blown single socket looks like it's been caused by what ever was plugged into it,not the socket or the wiring.But with out taking off the single socket to check behind,its only speculation.
So in general the install isn't as bad as everyone is making out ie calling them cowboys etc.Trust me I have seen alot worse.
The only real crime these electrician's have committed is second fixing too early in my opinion.
 

telectrix

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Respected Member
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cheshire/staffordshire
and cutting out for boxes with a wrecking ball. no excuse when we have angle grinders and the like enabling neat cut outs requiring the minimum of filling.
 

dinger809

Regular EF Member
Messages
99
Location
Essex
Also, the cables should have had capping over them before the plasterer does his bit, to stop the plaster rotting the cables. This is a job for the electrician and is part of the first fix
 

ChrisElectrical88

Forum Mentor
Messages
1,568
Location
Norwich
Plastering looks doggers.

Boxes are not to bad, more care probably would have been taken if the plasterers wernt following

Agree plasterer before second fix, however the client has possibly asked for it this was as a lived in house?
 

Dave OCD

Forum Mentor
Messages
3,163
Location
Cornwall
I think it's shoddy, I'd definitely have put the chased in new cables in oval tubing or at the very least capping and fixed it back properly too. And they're definitely not clean workers.
 

telectrix

Scouser and Proud.
Respected Member
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60,293
Location
cheshire/staffordshire
plaster does not rot cables.old wives tale from the days of lime plaster and rubber cables.
 

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