bathroom light question/boiler earth bonding

[elsparko]

as a 1st/2nd year i was always taught as a rule of thumb that if a tap/wateroutlet can be reached whilst touching the pendant/fitting that it should be upgraded to a waterproof chap.

i C2 3 fittings on friday and its being questioned by landlord, am i right in thinking that any room that has a shower/bath must have waterproof light fittings? the other bathroom is just a bog and a sink so i think that one would be ok but i would still c3 it.

another thing was my equipotential bonding, the boiler is supplied by metal gas pipe (correctly earthed) it is copper piping at the boiler but entering the house it turns to plastic pipes, do i need to cross bond the boiler pipes or are they covered by the gas/water services being earthed and the fact that its plastic pipe into the house?

away to dig out my regs book but thought id chuck a few questions on here

 

[westward10]

The light fitting must be suitable for the location.

 

[Des 56]

I would think it rare (other than perhaps if its in a special location) in most circumstances that a boiler would need bonding ever

 

[Octopus]

And if its outside the zones it can be anything.

That said I always fit IP rated lights in bathrooms, irrespective of zones.

You can't C3 a light in a room with just a toilet and basin.

 

[elsparko]

The light fitting must be suitable for the location.

i agree but apparently their second opinion reckons a pendant with metal shades is suitable for location, 2 of the lights are definitely within half a metre of the shower/and bath

 

[elsparko]

I would think it rare (other than perhaps if its in a special location) in most circumstances that a boiler would need bonding ever

it should be bonded inside but on a council contract we were specified that the boilers must be crossbonded, and all hot/cold at sinks, even when they are rcd protected and main services bonded anyways.

I just read up on the regs and the boiler is definitely ok, but the light fittings 2 of them are definitely in zone 2 and not suitable for location

 

[westward10]

Are they pendants or battens.

 

[elsparko]

Are they pendants or battens.

pendants, does it make a difference if they are snubnosed?

 

[Ian1981]

If the light fitting is above 2.25 meters from floor level then it will be out of any of the zones tho it should be suitable for the external influences that a bathroom offers.

 

[Ian1981]

 

[elsparko]

it was just above my head and im 6ft, i thought all rooms containing showers/baths should have waterproof light fittings, maybe just my last boss being overly fussy and its rubbed off on me

 

[elsparko]

may have to just put all the fittings to c3 as "what is suitable" is a bit vague, my opinion is that rooms with water and electricity the fittings should be of a decent IP rating, maybe im just too fussy but i wouldnt be happy fitting those in a bathroom.

i remember as a kid splashing water onto a lightbulb when it was on, smashed glass everywhere and in the pitch black too..

 

[Octopus]

you need to brush up on your coding IMHO

Some bedtime reading for you!

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

 

[westward10]

pendants, does it make a difference if they are snubnosed?

What are snub nosed.

 

[Midwest]

it should be bonded inside but on a council contract we were specified that the boilers must be crossbonded, and all hot/cold at sinks, even when they are rcd protected and main services bonded anyways.

I just read up on the regs and the boiler is definitely ok, but the light fittings 2 of them are definitely in zone 2 and not suitable for location

Do you mean something like this?

 

[elsparko]

you need to brush up on your coding IMHO

Some bedtime reading for you!

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

im still learning, by no means an expert on the regs lol, still just a 3rd year , like learning to drive it is only when you go out on your own that you really learn, the more i read over the regs its definitely a c3 offence.

as a rule of thumb if a room contained a bog it got a waterproof light fitting when doing inspections, at least on the council contracts at my last job

 

[Ian1981]

Why would just a W.C need an IP rated light?
Can’t you pee in the bog without hitting the light?

 

[Octopus]

im still learning, by no means an expert on the regs lol, still just a 3rd year , like learning to drive it is only when you go out on your own that you really learn, the more i read over the regs its definitely a c3 offence.

In which case why isn't your boss checking all this?

 

[Octopus]

Why would just a W.C need an IP rated light?

It doesn't

 

[elsparko]

Do you mean something like this?

View attachment 39407

i mean that the pipes should be earthed internally to the earth terminal inside the boiler itself so no real need for bonding with tags and cable


the light fittings may come down to a matter of opinion over what is "suitable" as i did not measure the height of the lowest point of the pendant from the ground

 

[elsparko]

In which case why isn't your boss checking all this?

he is, its why ive been called up on it lol

 

[elsparko]

It doesn't

not saying it needs one but the council contract we had stated that as the case and its sort of stuck with me i suppose.

 

[elsparko]

What are snub nosed.

battens, snub = short

 

[Ian1981]

i mean that the pipes should be earthed internally to the earth terminal inside the boiler itself so no real need for bonding with tags and cable


the light fittings may come down to a matter of opinion over what is "suitable" as i did not measure the height of the lowest point of the pendant from the ground

You need to understand why we require to protective bond pipework, extraneous parts etc, then you will understand why it’s usually unnecessary at the boiler especially in the case you’ve described.

 

[elsparko]

You need to understand why we require to protective bond pipework, extraneous parts etc, then you will understand why it’s usually unnecessary at the boiler especially in the case you’ve described.

ive always thought that , but as an apprentice i was told to bond them anyway, i think my boss at the time was just learning 17th edition regs himself as he came from a maintenance background and had just started up on his own doing domestic, he was good though, maybe a bit overly cautious when it came to earthing.

im up to speed on most things, just now im doing the paperwork side of eicrs im finding new things i need to learn that i missed at college/wasnt taught in the first place lol.

got my FICA in january and been offered a lead electrician position at my work so will need to brush up on the regs im unclear on pretty sharpish

 

[westward10]

battens, snub = short

Previous Regulations allowed batten holders providing they had an HO (Home Office) shield fitted which helped prevent condensation dripping on the lamp. Light fittings must not only be suitable for the zone but also for it's location if not installed in the prescribed zones. Only you can decide that.

 

[elsparko]

Previous Regulations allowed batten holders providing they had an HO (Home Office) shield fitted which helped prevent condensation dripping on the lamp. Light fittings must not only be suitable for the zone but also for it's location if not installed in the prescribed zones. Only you can decide that.

another mistake i made was thinking the zones extended all the way to the roof, not only to 2.25m

 

[Strima]

another mistake i made was thinking the zones extended all the way to the roof, not only to 2.25m

That may be the case but the fittings still need to be suitable for the location and environment. Moisture and splashes don't care about the zones and will go anywhere is damn well pleases...

I have four young kids and regularly have water dripping off the bathroom ceiling which is above 2.25m.

 

[Midwest]

i mean that the pipes should be earthed internally to the earth terminal inside the boiler itself so no real need for bonding with tags and cable


the light fittings may come down to a matter of opinion over what is "suitable" as i did not measure the height of the lowest point of the pendant from the ground

They do normally with a metal clamp to secure all incoming pipework.

 

[Midwest]

Previous Regulations allowed batten holders providing they had an HO (Home Office) shield fitted which helped prevent condensation dripping on the lamp. Light fittings must not only be suitable for the zone but also for it's location if not installed in the prescribed zones. Only you can decide that.

I thought it was called Home Office Skirt, suppose that's sexist nowadays

 

[Wilko]

I thought it was called Home Office Skirt, suppose that's sexist nowadays

Now now, skirts have long been gender neutral, I'm told

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Waterproof tap?

 

[elsparko]

Now now, skirts have long been gender neutral, I'm told

we call them kilts

 

[Taylortwocities]

With respect, elsparko.
You (and your boss) should get properly acquainted with the current issue of BS7671 before you make any further attempts at inspections, testing and coding what appear to be perfectly acceptable installations.

 

[elsparko]

With respect, elsparko.
You (and your boss) should get properly acquainted with the current issue of BS7671 before you make any further attempts at inspections, testing and coding what appear to be perfectly acceptable installations.

they arent "perfectly" acceptable , maybe just by the skin of their noses, non enclosed fittings are an accident waiting to happen in a bathroom.

if you would be happy signing off cheap metal fittings in a bathroom as acceptable for use then be my guest, but i wont put my name to it.

 

[elsparko]

With respect, elsparko.
You (and your boss) should get properly acquainted with the current issue of BS7671 before you make any further attempts at inspections, testing and coding what appear to be perfectly acceptable installations.

the boss i have now is up to speed with the 17th edition, my last boss was learning alongside me and giving bad advice at times, the boss isnt always right, but they are always the boss.

 

[Taylortwocities]

What you install may well exceed the requirements, we all do that.
My point is that you cannot code something as Cx just because that’s your feeling about it.
It must actually contravene a regulation.

 

[westward10]

When have they changed from battens to cheap metal fittings.

 

[elsparko]

When have they changed from battens to cheap metal fittings.

i never said they were battens? i said they were pendant style lights.

 

[Midwest]

See this is one of the reasons I don't do EICR, too much interpretation of how ---- something is.

I know lets have a National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting or even a National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers. Then you'd all be singing from the same hymn sheet

 

[elsparko]

See this is one of the reasons I don't do EICR, too much interpretation of how **** something is.

I know lets have a National Inspection Council for Electrical Installation Contracting or even a National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers. Then you'd all be singing from the same hymn sheet

when i see something such as pendants in a bathroom my mind instantly thinks back to those "faces of death" videos of people dying in dumb ways, wouldnt take much effort for a lanky chap to grab the pendant whilst getting in or out of the bath if its within reach.

i dont like exposed lamps where there is likelyhood of water splashing onto the hot glass.

 

[elsparko]

the boiler offence i stated was my mistake though, should of checked rather than listening to my old boss and relying on that as gospel

 

[Midwest]

Well ----, if you wanna step out in front of a bus, and see who comes off worse off, be my guest (my best gunnery sergeant highway talk)

 

[westward10]

I always nod, listen to my boss and do the opposite.

 

[Midwest]

I always nod, listen to my boss and do the opposite.

In my previous experiences my bosses never come up with any ideas that been haven't already suggested. Only difference was I had to acknowledged how brilliant their concept was. Not that I've had anything new to add, but they thought they did.

 

[westward10]

One of my bosses favourite sayings is What you need to do which is a signal for me not to do it

 

[elsparko]

well my festive season will have a good bit of reading thrown in, may have to place the regs book in the throne room, im first to admit i dont know everything, not been in this trade even a quarter of the time some of you lot have, i try to learn from a mistake and not let it happen again, i can live with mis-classifying an item on an eicr as it can be amended easily.

kind of wish i had waited to get home and check the regs before posting here though

 

[elsparko]

well my festive season will have a good bit of reading thrown in, may have to place the regs book in the throne room, im first to admit i dont know everything, not been in this trade even a quarter of the time some of you lot have, i try to learn from a mistake and not let it happen again, i can live with mis-classifying an item on an eicr as it can be amended easily.

kind of wish i had waited to get home and check the regs before posting here though

 

[Midwest]

well my festive season will have a good bit of reading thrown in, may have to place the regs book in the throne room, im first to admit i dont know everything, not been in this trade even a quarter of the time some of you lot have, i try to learn from a mistake and not let it happen again, i can live with mis-classifying an item on an eicr as it can be amended easily.

kind of wish i had waited to get home and check the regs before posting here though

well my festive season will have a good bit of reading thrown in, may have to place the regs book in the throne room, im first to admit i dont know everything, not been in this trade even a quarter of the time some of you lot have, i try to learn from a mistake and not let it happen again, i can live with mis-classifying an item on an eicr as it can be amended easily.

kind of wish i had waited to get home and check the regs before posting here though

Oh God another double post, bad grammar, bad spelling, the Worlds gonna end

 

[elsparko]

One of my bosses favourite sayings is What you need to do which is a signal for me not to do it

Oh God another double post, bad grammar, bad spelling, the Worlds gonna end

i am the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse