Discuss.

[trev]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=0jJNtCOtjX1saatwMUOGTw&bvm=bv.72197243,d.ZGU

 

[Marvo]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=0jJNtCOtjX1saatwMUOGTw&bvm=bv.72197243,d.ZGU

You've posted a google server cached search link there Trev, it will only work for a while until the server cache is cleared so I've pasted the article here with a link to the source at the bottom.

Rosamund Urwin: The PM’s silent assent to the NHS death sentence

Most new contracts have gone to private firms, who can hide behind the NHS logo but siphon off a profit
Electorally toxic: shadow health secretary Andy Burnham called for an end to the privatisation of the NHS until the next General Election to give voters the chance for a proper debate

Think back to 2010. In the run-up to the General Election, David Cameron declared that the NHS would be his “No 1 priority”. Then those posters appeared, with an oddly unblemished image of the Tory leader that was straight out of uncanny valley. “I’ll cut the deficit, not the NHS” ran one of the slogans next to Synthetic Man’s face.

Now, with the next election approaching, we’re hearing a lot less from the Conservatives about the health service. The nation’s biggest employer didn’t even warrant a mention in the Queen’s Speech. This silence isn’t a sign it’s all ticking along merrily — most of the recent headlines have included words like “closure”, “critical” and “crisis” — it shows that the NHS has become electorally toxic for the Tories.

That’s not surprising when you examine the coalition’s record. When David Cameron arrived in No 10, the public had never been more satisfied with the NHS; now the story is of swamped A&Es, chronic staff shortages and slashed funding for mental health services. And while voters were repeatedly told the health budget was rising in real terms, many departments have actually experienced sharp cuts passed off as “efficiency savings”.

On top of all this, the NHS is being privatised by stealth, despite the Government having no mandate for a sell-off. Last year, a majority of new contracts to provide services went to private companies. These firms can hide behind the NHS logo but siphon off a profit. Collectively, such providers received more than £10 billion from the public coffers in 2013. And according to yesterday’s Financial Times, around £5.8 billion of NHS work is currently being advertised to the private sector, a 14 per cent increase on a year earlier.

Earlier this week, the shadow health secretary Andy Burnham called for an end to the privatisation of the NHS until the next General Election to give voters the chance for a proper debate. This is a welcome move, even if it comes from a party which oversaw a sharp increase in the use of the private sector by the NHS during its time in office, as well as disastrous PFI deals that bogged hospital trusts down in debt.

The marketisation of the NHS is based on a false premise: that markets are the most efficient way to distribute care. In reality, competitive tendering is bureaucratically cumbersome, expensive and it fragments healthcare as those with chronic conditions are treated by more than one provider. There are additional costs too — on admin, on advertising — money lost from patient care.

Next month, a People’s March for the NHS will travel from Jarrow down to Parliament. It’s a call to arms to save a still-beloved institution. Perhaps a crowd shouting outside the Commons will force the PM to stop keeping shtum.

Source Rosamund Urwin: The PM?s silent assent to the NHS death sentence - Comment - London Evening Standard

 

[trev]

Oh right, thanks mate, I didn't know that.

 

[telectrix]

hmmm. an article in a free rag owned by a russian ex-KGB agent. leftie propaganda?

 

[trev]

So you disagree that the NHS is being privatised by stealth?
Or you're ok with that?
Even the Morning Star used to print the truth now and again.

 

[Besoeker]

I could say a lot about this but I'll try to be brief
I'm very old. I even predate the introduction of the NHS.

Like a lot of the welfare benefits, the perception of social healthcare has changed from a safety net to a god given right.

When I was growing up a visit to the GP was a decision not taken lightly. My observation is that this is now taken much less seriously - almost to the point of a social occasion. I't's a no cost option - at least at the point of use. The last time I looked, prescription charges were waived for about 70% of applicants and those that do pay have a fixed and usually subsidised charge.

But I think it isn't just the attitude of the "consumers" that have changed. I've had some dealings with the NHS over many years. Now and again it involves several hours and sometimes days of intravenous infusions. Effective but not comfortable. Vital functions are supposed to be monitored at regular intervals in case things go badly and they need to pull the plug. Such checks were often missed while the nurses discussed anything from last night's television to staff gossip. They simply don't see patients as customers for their services. But I do accept that some are very good. Shouldn't they all be?

Just another silly incident. I got a fairly bad cut on a finger. The Missus, who had been in the medical field bandaged it up and, it seemed, stemmed the blood flow. The next morning she removed the dressing and the wound just gushed blood. Really gushed.

OK. A&E, here we come. Got treated, a few chemical substances on it, serious bandaging, and advised to get the dressing seen to the next day by my surgery.

Called for a surgery appointment. No can do. You need to see the nurse and she does Thursdays only - this was Tuesday.

OK. What do I do I asked.
"Call NHS direct and find the nearest NHS walk in facility."
I did. About 10 miles away. No big deal. Went there.

Wait in the queue half an hour before being seen by reception. In the meantime my bloody finger was dripping blood.

And I was not a happy bunny.
But it got worse. Much worse.
"Have you brought your own dressing?"
"Um...no. I was expecting to be treated here."
"We can't treat you unless you have brought your own dressing."

By then I was a very angry bunny. With a very bloody finger. A few rather nasty thoughts went through my mind.
But still a master of self control.

"What do you suggest I do then?"
"Go to your GP's surgery."
"The very reason I'm here is because they can't see me today and I need treatment today. And NHS direct directed me here to get treatment today."

"Sorry. We can't."

By then I was right royally pished off. The dripping bloody finger was my least concern.
Fortunately Mrs B was with me and defused the situation.
"We need to go."

So what next. The NHS walk in was a walk out with nothing achieved. The surgery wasn't an option.
A&E possibly?

Tried.
Sorry. You need to go to your GP surgery.
Can't.
NHS walk in?
Can't

After a confab I got treated at A&E, the very place that said I needed to be treated that day.

Inefficiency doesn't have enough syllables.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I don't understand politics due to laziness and thickness.
But my experience of the NHS (which I'm not going to publicize over the internet), it is frigging awesome!!!

 

[dingledong]

Other than the long waits I think the nhs is good. Though I think it's the individuals that I dealt with that made it good.
I broke my arm the surgeon was fantastic but the anethatist ? Knocked a tooth out
10 years ago broke a leg didn't walk for a year went back every 4 months never saw my surgeon but bumped into him explained this and that and he said I would not have done that I would have done it this way .
Every time I went I saw a different doctor one who had to repeat his self as I never understood what he said
But over all I find the nursing staff excellent, it's as you go higher up the nhs that it starts going wrong

 

[UNG]

Unless there has been an improvement since 2009 there needs to be some major --- kicking done within the NHS or certainly one of the hospitals close to me.

My dad had an operation back in 2009 and infection control on the ward was more or less non existent and my dad contracted an infection along with quite a few other patients on that ward, there was a matron over 4 wards including the one my dad was on who had no mandate to do her job properly she was on a 9 - 5 contract and her hours could not be varied yet many of the staff she was over worked permanent nights and were never spot checked by her. Myself and my brothers had a meeting with her and catalogued a number of problems we had noticed in the ward my dad was on she was horrified at what we saw going on and we were only there for a few hours each day. This is obviously still happening as I'm still talking to people who have had a knee op and got something they didn't want, an infection.

My dad left hospital in a body bag, I refused the death certificate until the cause of death was properly recorded they even tried to cover that up.

In the last 6 years I have had a number of consultations for a couple of problems the quality of which has been very varied to say the least, one was for a suspected heart problem the consultant was fantastic guy who took the time to explain that the heart murmur I had been told I had for more than 40 years was because I was plumbed differently to the normal standard, the other for shoulder problem that was caused by a misdiagnosed broken collar bone 22 years ago, I was told it was whiplash from a road accident at the time, I have never met so one size fits all practitioners while getting treatment for this who don't seem able to accept everyone is different

The NHS needs some --- kicked and could learn a lot from these private healthcare providers, I'm not saying it needs privatisation but it needs a good shake up

 

[Besoeker]

The NHS needs some --- kicked and could learn a lot from these private healthcare providers, I'm not saying it needs privatisation but it needs a good shake up

Totally agree.

 

[Diddy]

Unless there has been an improvement since 2009 there needs to be some major --- kicking done within the NHS or certainly one of the hospitals close to me.

My dad had an operation back in 2009 and infection control on the ward was more or less non existent and my dad contracted an infection along with quite a few other patients on that ward, there was a matron over 4 wards including the one my dad was on who had no mandate to do her job properly she was on a 9 - 5 contract and her hours could not be varied yet many of the staff she was over worked permanent nights and were never spot checked by her. Myself and my brothers had a meeting with her and catalogued a number of problems we had noticed in the ward my dad was on she was horrified at what we saw going on and we were only there for a few hours each day. This is obviously still happening as I'm still talking to people who have had a knee op and got something they didn't want, an infection.

My dad left hospital in a body bag, I refused the death certificate until the cause of death was properly recorded they even tried to cover that up.

In the last 6 years I have had a number of consultations for a couple of problems the quality of which has been very varied to say the least, one was for a suspected heart problem the consultant was fantastic guy who took the time to explain that the heart murmur I had been told I had for more than 40 years was because I was plumbed differently to the normal standard, the other for shoulder problem that was caused by a misdiagnosed broken collar bone 22 years ago, I was told it was whiplash from a road accident at the time, I have never met so one size fits all practitioners while getting treatment for this who don't seem able to accept everyone is different

The NHS needs some --- kicked and could learn a lot from these private healthcare providers, I'm not saying it needs privatisation but it needs a good shake up

Sorry to hear about your father, I had very similar with my mother too. The cover ups were awful to say the least. I don't know what the answer is but I am proud of the bits of the nhs that do what they are supposed to. You do realise that private treatment in the UK generally means getting treated by the same Doctor/Surgeon or Consultant as you would if you had went NHS. Often using NHS facilities too, Not always but often.
Unfortunately these NHS employees are human and will cover their friends backs in the same way as you may cover a friends back at work, Only thing is they are dealing with people and life and death which is much more emotive than some prat ordering the wrong size of armour cable. But I do know where you are coming from having went through it with my mother, and also having myself had excellent treatment at the same hospital in different departments.

 

[UNG]

Sorry to hear about your father, I had very similar with my mother too. The cover ups were awful to say the least. I don't know what the answer is but I am proud of the bits of the nhs that do what they are supposed to. You do realise that private treatment in the UK generally means getting treated by the same Doctor/Surgeon or Consultant as you would if you had went NHS. Often using NHS facilities too, Not always but often.
Unfortunately these NHS employees are human and will cover their friends backs in the same way as you may cover a friends back at work, Only thing is they are dealing with people and life and death which is much more emotive than some prat ordering the wrong size of armour cable. But I do know where you are coming from having went through it with my mother, and also having myself had excellent treatment at the same hospital in different departments.

Consultants doing NHS and private work is nothing new, I spent 25 years doing contract work in NHS premises until 2004 it was quite common to hear of consultants, surgeons and anaesthetists doing NHS work in a morning and private in an afternoon back in the 80's. It was not unusual to hear the occasional kick off because a consultants morning clinic had over run and they were late for their private work or would have to skip lunch

 

[trev]

Mrss trev's aunt had a didgy hip which needed replacing and was told the waiting list for it was pretty long. She had come into a tidy amount of cash on the death of her husband (which he had stashed secretly over the years but that's another story) and so asked if she could go private, the GP made a call there and then and she saw a consultant (the same one she'd have waited months to see on the NHS incidentally) 2 days later. About a fortnight later she had a shiny new hip and was eventually pain free. So we al know that it happens and has done for years.
This thread was intended to be more of a discussion on the privatisation by stealth of the NHS. I don't think that patient care will improve and experience tells us that private (profit making) companies are no better at delivering services than their state ran counterparts.
Never mind, I'm in no position to complain about a thread wandering off topic or in a different direction from what it's supposed to be

 

[UNG]

Labour told us they were building new hospitals they never made it clear at the time it was going to be done using PFI's and that only the medical staff would be NHS employed and all the support staff would be transferred to the PFI company running the hospital so was that a stealth move to privatisation at the time

 

[Guest111]

What really gets my goat,and bear in mind my wife works in the nhs is that these consultants are allowed to do as much private work as they do,very often in an NHS hospital in the same theatre.Imagine how you'd feel if you found out at the last minute that the op you'd waited several months for was cancelled at the last minute,not because of an emergency,but because someone with more money than you had took your place in theatre because they could afford to pay and you couldn't.I.ve seen my wife come home stressed to hell because she's spent all day trying to contact patients and tell them tomorrows clinic is cancelled,what she can't tell them is it's because the consultant is doing a load of private work.

 

[ferg]

I'm not suggesting The NHS should be run as a business but if you ran a business in the same way the NHS is run it would collapse catastrophically.

Civil servants are absolutely notorious for wasting money on an unimaginable scale.

I have no objection to private companies being contracted to run parts of the NHS.

IF they increase standards AND reduce operating costs.

The profits they then make are a percentage of the overall savings.

The NHS itself should be able to do this but for some reason they don't, nothing changes and they take the easy option of cutting services.

 

[telectrix]

agreed. some years ago, the MD of the company i worked for had a brother who was a hospital porter. one day he was asked to take 6 huge bags of clinical waste to the incinerator. being a nosy sod, he opened a bag to find it full of brand new dressings, bandages etc. all the bags contained the same. on asking a senior nurse why they were going to the incinerator, he was told " we've got no room to store them". unbelievable.