Emergency Lighting Fp??????

[mpatto]

Fitting emergency lights in communal areas of a block of 6 domestic flats (20 years old), non-maintained 8w. does the wiring need to be in FP of can i use t&e or low smoke t&e.

 

[telectrix]

i prefer to use white FP200, T/E is acceptable in most situations, but local council may have their own requirements. best to check.

 

[johnboy6083]

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in supplying maintained or non maintained lighting with a fire retardant cable. It would still work without it, and the fitting would melt at the first sign of heat anyway lol. Only sustained lighting should be fed with FP or pyro.

 

[ackbarthestar]

As long as the EMlighting is not supplied from a central battery system.

Most EM lights have their emergency side self contained within each enclosure so the cabling is just part of the charging circuit.

As Telx says, I would take advice from the council authority who have ordered the work.

 

[telectrix]

the reason i'm using FP200 is that i got some real cheap.

 

[johnboy6083]

In my mind: sustained lighting is fed from a central battery bank, and rarely seen any more.
Maintained means it operates as a normal light and non maintained means it only operates when there is a loss of power.

 

[telectrix]

can't argue with that,johnboy.

 

[adamh]

came across some sustained lighting the other day then ... 24v batterys (2x12) and charger feeding some sustained or maintained fitting as i would of called them all fed through a nice motor isolator behind the bar for when they need it really dark lol

 

[ackbarthestar]

Just to clear up something in my own mind.

1/ Non-maintained = One EMLight activates by a change over switch when the primary charging circuit is off

2/ Maintained = One Light that is activated continually by either the charging circuit or the internal EM battery circuit

3/ Sustained = Two lights, controlled by a change over switch. One activated by the primary charging circuit and the other EMLight operated by the EM battery circuit.

Sustained is now an 'old fashioned' name for another form of 'maintained'

Open to persuasion .......

 

[johnboy6083]

I disagree matey. a sustained system can include a changeover switch, but it could be to change over from mains power to the battery bank, when the power fails. I suppose its almost like a UPS, except the power is not running through the battery all the time, and you can tolerate the very short loss of power to the lights, unlike loss of power to a PLC ect.

 

[ackbarthestar]

This is where the confusion lies, whether or not sustained = maintained. I was always taught that sustained used two separate lamps. whereas maintained used the same lamp.

The first lamp is on all the time while the lighting circuit is energized, usually over exit doors. The second lamp comes on when the power is cut to the lighting circuit, a change over switch then energizes the second lamp from a emergency battery source, it can be contained within the unit or it can be supplied via an emergency circuit (pyro or FP200 )

I think BS7671 chapter 56 covers the different levels of delay allowed for different back-up supplies.

 

[alarm man]

,sustained lighting where 2 or more lamps in same housing,one acts as a non maintained lamp,the other as a normal lamp similar to combined

 

[ackbarthestar]

,sustained lighting where 2 or more lamps in same housing,one acts as a non maintained lamp,the other as a normal lamp similar to combined

I'll go with that....

Any other views?

 

[bugsy]

This is where the confusion lies, whether or not sustained = maintained. I was always taught that sustained used two separate lamps. whereas maintained used the same lamp.

The first lamp is on all the time while the lighting circuit is energized, usually over exit doors. The second lamp comes on when the power is cut to the lighting circuit, a change over switch then energizes the second lamp from a emergency battery source, it can be contained within the unit or it can be supplied via an emergency circuit (pyro or FP200 )

I think BS7671 chapter 56 covers the different levels of delay allowed for different back-up supplies.

Have'nt seen sustained with two lamps in eon's ( I think they were installed on Noah's Ark though! )

 

[ackbarthestar]

Have'nt seen sustained with two lamps in eon's ( I think they were installed on Noah's Ark though! )

Oh yes, they had emergency lighting in Noah's day. It was called coloured light - A rainbow !

I think all types of EMLighting where there is a continual light on from the light fitting, regardless of the number of lights installed within the fitting, which has Emergency characteristics is now called Maintained.

 

[johnboy6083]

Well it looks like I was wrong. You learn something every day.

 

[adamh]

the system i was looking at the other day only had 1 fluorescent lamp in each fitting , 24v fed from a transformer/charger and batterys.

 

[Guitarist]

Maintained means that you can use it as an ordinary light. It doesn't have to be on all the time.

 

[tazz]

Seems to be some confusion here, as guitarist has stated there is maintained, switchable for public lighting etc, and non maintained which only comes on when there is a loss of power. And I think were we are all getting carried away is the method or system which is installed where fire proof cable is used. Most small installation only require self contained EM, and only equire T&E.
Some larger commercial installaion may be designed with a remote UPS running at 110v or 230v. on these systems pyro, fp200 or fp100 singles will be needed to provide power to the em lights. This fitting usually just has a basic relay fitted which drops out to ups on mains failure.

 

[alarm man]

Seems to be some confusion here, as guitarist has stated there is maintained, switchable for public lighting etc, and non maintained which only comes on when there is a loss of power. And I think were we are all getting carried away is the method or system which is installed where fire proof cable is used. Most small installation only require self contained EM, and only equire T&E.
Some larger commercial installaion may be designed with a remote UPS running at 110v or 230v. on these systems pyro, fp200 or fp100 singles will be needed to provide power to the em lights. This fitting usually just has a basic relay fitted which drops out to ups on mains failure.

central battery systems are a bit more than a simple relay mate..your right tho fire cable must be used on these,fire cable is not reommended for your standard self contained eml as per iee guide to em lighting

 

[tazz]

Evening Alarm Man, UPS are quite a sod to build up, was talking abaut light fittings with change over relay