Holiday let Fire Alarm

[baldelectrician]

Do these still need a mains supply, if so it might not always be so simple.

If not then radio interlinked wont last anywhere near 10 years despite any claims otherwise. 1 year maybe, 10 years no way hosea.

Years ago I would have agreed on the battery issue.

Now the batteries and the alarm technology are much better, however I would not install something like Fire Angel (they had a product recall a few years ago as 10 year batteries lasted 1.5 years)

On the other side I install Aico battery interlinked alarms and have had almost no failures, the failure rate is less than 0.05% (we have installed lots), we tend to get the client to buy them direct from the wholesaler to keep our turnover down

 

[EddieB]

Thanks James
I believe that the original question would have negated most of your need to display your knowledge on Fire Alarm systems, however thank you for your manufacturer recommendations

 

[EddieB]

Years ago I would have agreed on the battery issue.

Now the batteries and the alarm technology are much better, however I would not install something like Fire Angel (they had a product recall a few years ago as 10 year batteries lasted 1.5 years)

On the other side I install Aico battery interlinked alarms and have had almost no failures, the failure rate is less than 0.05% (we have installed lots), we tend to get the client to buy them direct from the wholesaler to keep our turnover down

Hi, baldelectrician doesn't BS 5839 Part 6 Grade D1 Category LD1 compliant regs want mains powered units as opposed to all battery which falls into the BS 5839 Part 6 Grade F1 compliant regs?

 

[James]

I think you’re mixing me up with someone else, I made no manufactures recommendations.
only made a point about definitions

 

[EddieB]

I think you’re mixing me up with someone else, I made no manufactures recommendations.
only made a point about definitions

Yeah. your right, sorry you didn'

 

[littlespark]

Ok… I’ll bite.

Oscar… are you suggesting that aico, with a 10 year battery, no mains power will not last 10 years because of the rf functionality?

I would estimate 50% of Scottish homes have at least one of these types of detector since the new legislation came in. Possibly more.



Are we certain OP is in Scotland, or was that just to explain something?
If they are, then all domestic properties are the same whether owned, rented or holiday accommodation… it’s one smoke on each hall/ landing…. Heat in kitchen and smoke in “a room that gets used the most” like a living room.
Extra detectors can be put in if required according to layout of house.

However, some of my English customers just over the border have indeed needed detectors in bedrooms for holiday lets.

 

[pc1966]

If not then radio interlinked wont last anywhere near 10 years despite any claims otherwise. 1 year maybe, 10 years no way hosea.

Ah you have used FireAngel then?

I would say that if you were doing a rewire than putting in the mains powered Aico would be better as the alarm modules are cheaper, more so when it comes to the ~10 year replacement due to sensor age, etc. I would still use the light circuit for powering it though unless something complicated where it had to be separate.

Best thing to me about the Aico range is the remote test/silence button, saves folks trying to wave a towel at them, etc.

 

[EddieB]

Ok… I’ll bite.

Oscar… are you suggesting that aico, with a 10 year battery, no mains power will not last 10 years because of the rf functionality?

I would estimate 50% of Scottish homes have at least one of these types of detector since the new legislation came in. Possibly more.



Are we certain OP is in Scotland, or was that just to explain something?
If they are, then all domestic properties are the same whether owned, rented or holiday accommodation… it’s one smoke on each hall/ landing…. Heat in kitchen and smoke in “a room that gets used the most” like a living room.
Extra detectors can be put in if required according to layout of house.

However, some of my English customers just over the border have indeed needed detectors in bedrooms for holiday lets.

WHAT!!! you coming over the Border ...... Hahahaha!!

 

[littlespark]

WHAT!!! you coming over the Border ...... Hahahaha!!

Yeah. Got my passport and a strip search every time….

The border is only 4 or 5 miles away from me… my wholesalers and nearest supermarkets are all on the English side.

Handy this time of year when scotland has minimum pricing on alcohol.

 

[baldelectrician]

Yeah. Got my passport and a strip search every time….

Only because you insist

 

[oscar21]

Ok… I’ll bite.

Oscar… are you suggesting that aico, with a 10 year battery, no mains power will not last 10 years because of the rf functionality?

I would estimate 50% of Scottish homes have at least one of these types of detector since the new legislation came in. Possibly more.



Are we certain OP is in Scotland, or was that just to explain something?
If they are, then all domestic properties are the same whether owned, rented or holiday accommodation… it’s one smoke on each hall/ landing…. Heat in kitchen and smoke in “a room that gets used the most” like a living room.
Extra detectors can be put in if required according to layout of house.

However, some of my English customers just over the border have indeed needed detectors in bedrooms for holiday lets.

Basically yes. It might possibly last that long in a lab environment in perfect controlled conditions but out in the real world do you really think a tiny little battery will still be functioning and transmitting perfectly over radio waves a decade after it is installed. I've not fitted or even aware of the fire Angel problem but that sounds a more realistic outcome to be fair.

 

[littlespark]

in a lab environment, they possibly last 12 to 13 years or more... outliving the 10 year lifespan of the detector.

Aico have had them on the ,market long enough now to have tested them in real world.


the only thing i can see that might reduce their lifespan is if they are ringing more than the recommended frequency for testing them... like if someone burns the dinner every night, every week.....

 

[brianmoooore]

There have been some recent changes to the fire regs applicable to holiday cottages in England, according to the company that books the guests for my three, and they came into force about six weeks ago.
No changes to anything to do with fire/smoke detection, but the two that affect me are a need to replace the external door locks with a type that don't need a key to open (turnbuckle on the inside, rather than keyhole), and a requirement to provide automatic lighting of some kind in the event of a power failure. This can be done by plug in rechargeable torches that light automatically if they lose power, but since my cottages are single storey, I'll probably fit a non maintained downlight in each.

 

[mainline]

There have been some recent changes to the fire regs applicable to holiday cottages in England, according to the company that books the guests for my three, and they came into force about six weeks ago.
No changes to anything to do with fire/smoke detection, but the two that affect me are a need to replace the external door locks with a type that don't need a key to open (turnbuckle on the inside, rather than keyhole), and a requirement to provide automatic lighting of some kind in the event of a power failure. This can be done by plug in rechargeable torches that light automatically if they lose power, but since my cottages are single storey, I'll probably fit a non maintained downlight in each.

Just started on the first of 18 properties, updating smoke alarms to hardwired interlinked 10yr battery ones.

 

[DPG]

Basically yes. It might possibly last that long in a lab environment in perfect controlled conditions but out in the real world do you really think a tiny little battery will still be functioning and transmitting perfectly over radio waves a decade after it is installed. I've not fitted or even aware of the fire Angel problem but that sounds a more realistic outcome to be fair.

Don't forget it's not constantly transmitting though.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The Aico mains powered battery back up only maintains power for approx four months if the power is off, the ten years quoted is the life expectancy of the battery whilst being charged from the mains, NB this is the mains powered battery units.

 

[pirate]

My personal experience is that I have had the Aico 10 year battery powered alarms in my home for 8 years now and there's no suggestion of the battery failing in any of the units. I installed the same ones in my daughter's flat 6 years ago, no problem so far. I have installed quite a few over the last 3 years, so maybe too early to tell, but I have no doubt the technology will see these battery units last 10 years.
FYI, my system and the system in my daughter's flat were installed as both properties were rented out. This was before:
1. The recent regs for ALL homes to have them, and
2. The recent regs allowing for battery radio-interlinked units.
My approach previously was a hybrid one, whereby the first unit was a mains powered unit with 10 year battery and radio-link, and the others were purely battery powered radio-linked. While not strictly complying when fitted, the design and construction of the properties was such that hard-wiring would be very messy, very time-consuming, very expensive. Also, both properties had the usual smoke in the hall, heat in the kitchen and smoke in the main living area. These 3 detectors are less than 6m apart, so if one sounds you really hear it throughout, whether they are interlinked or not!
Nowadays, they comply anyway so not a problem, and I live in the previously rented property and my daughter lives in hers.
I just think that the simplicity of the non-disruptive 10 year battery radio-interlinked Aico alarms is a great system, and my clients over the last few years have been very happy too chose that option.

 

[Simon47]

+1 for Aico
Though annoyingly, not all that long after I fitted the multi-sensor smoke plus a CO right next to each other ... they have come out with a combo multi-sensor smoke plus CO in one unit.
The radio modules do add considerably to the price, not far off doubling the cost/head.
If radio linked, all the heads copy the sound of the alarm that triggered - different sounds for CO and smoke. But this doesn't work for hardwired interlink. And yes, you can mix/match hard-wired and radio as I've had to do in both of our properties since getting new cables around would have been impractical - perhaps when they are between tenants I'll reconsider the upheaval needed.