Motor tripping supply..........I wonder why!!!!

[Darkwood]

Joinery mill call out to shed with everything coated in fine dust a smell of burning and a sheepish lad saying smoke came from motor then a bang.

this is what i found when i removed motor endplate. Safe to say ive never seen everything yet, what your seeing is fine sawdust pulled through the motor during running and set solid into a waxy glue with the sap vapour that had been drawn in too. The result is super insulated field coils that led to a burnt out field coil to right of pic believe it or not this motor turned quite freely. I suggested an extraction system above machine to clean the air up in the shed but doubt they will heed my advice.

 

[Engineer54]

Joinery mill call out to shed with everything coated in fine dust a smell of burning and a sheepish lad saying smoke came from motor then a bang.

View attachment 8108this is what i found when i removed motor endplate. Safe to say ive never seen everything yet, what your seeing is fine sawdust pulled through the motor during running and set solid into a waxy glue with the sap vapour that had been drawn in too. The result is super insulated field coils that led to a burnt out field coil to right of pic believe it or not this motor turned quite freely. I suggested an extraction system above machine to clean the air up in the shed but doubt they will heed my advice.

Seen that a few times darkwood, and always when there has been no means of dust extraction whatsoever. You'll probably see the same situation in any other equipment that is in the same area/location.

If they don't want to heed the good advice you have given to this company, perhaps remind them of H&S regulations, relating to employees safe working conditions that WILL require a bona fide extraction system to be in place in instances such as this....

 

[Darkwood]

They aint got the money for it, its a 2bit company and if you'd seen the rest of electrics you just wonder why a building full of sawdust hasnt burnt down, but this is a machine on its own in a shed, the main building has an extract system, im just supprised as i generally do motors drawing wires and working punch machines or lathes etc so just a bit left of field to see a motor in this condition im used to burnt out motors etc or the usual bearings gone so nowt new to me just picked up new customers within different industries so coming across unusual things for me.

 

[Knobhead]

Hehe motors being like that bring back memories. “Can’t understand it, it’s worked perfect since 1935.”
Once they’ve paid for the rewind or new motor they may listen to the voice of reason. Maybe…. Eeerr well…. How much!!!!

Your right, dust extraction needs to be in place, but you try and convince them of that. I gave up years ago!

Get it repaired and give up.

1935 isn’t a joke, we had motors that had been plodding along for 70+ years and still showing no signs of giving up! They were built like tanks!
I used to love repairing the old Mather & Platt or Lancashire Dynamo & Crypyo motors.

 

[Darkwood]

Oh yes done some oversized (physically) cast iron DC motors and yes think they were Mathers and Platt... Stamped before the war and still going strong well that is until i had one refirbed with new bearings and they fitted the commutator back in the wrong angle which became obvious when i ran it, the came out to site tried blaming me for connecting it wrong initially until i pointed out the brushes dont align with the inspection plates, he fobbed me off with it dosnt matter on the angle they are fitted, kinda felt good to tell him it can cause field problems and arcing of the com' which in this case had damaged it, realising he couldnt fob me off he footed the 1k bill to have it repaired.

 

[Knobhead]

Out of commutation, now that’s fun! Not seen it for 20 odd years!

 

[netblindpaul]

Remember darkwood, remind the client he has a statute law duty under COSHH, EAWR89, & PUWER98 to resolve and sort not only the extraction issue but the dust ingress into the electrical equipment.
PUWER98, EAWR89, & COSHH & the management regs are all retrospective, even if BS7671 is not.
They will almost certainly find that their insurance policy will be null and void no matter what the claim at the moment!
That may sharpen their ideas as the directors will find themselves personally liable, or one of them will anyway.

 

[Knobhead]

darkwood:
It feels good to turn to the old farts and say “told you so”!
:hurray:

 

[Darkwood]

Remember darkwood, remind the client he has a statute law duty under COSHH, EAWR89, & PUWER98 to resolve and sort not only the extraction issue but the dust ingress into the electrical equipment.
PUWER98, EAWR89, & COSHH & the management regs are all retrospective, even if BS7671 is not.
They will almost certainly find that their insurance policy will be null and void no matter what the claim at the moment!
That may sharpen their ideas as the directors will find themselves personally liable, or one of them will anyway.

Been down this road already, as long as i cover my rear etc im not going to push the matter too far, you end up losing a good customer, i happy to tell them the reason for the problem and how to avoid it in future but as goes the list of BS codes they are ignoring - well thats really their risk not mine. Ive to way up my position, i do my job correct and to the standards im happy to say im confident in, if i start quoting COSHH, BS-**** etc etc il soon find myself unable to pay my mortgage.
Agree in a ideal world they would listen and sort it out but we dont live in that world and especially with times as hard as are at present.

 

[Knobhead]

Paul, take a reality check.

Fred and Bill have been working there little business for 50 years. COSHH, EAWR89, & PUWER98 are pure flights of fancy. “We can’t afford that, it’ll put us out of business t’ big fellas’”. We’ve got t’ lads to think of.

Directors? I’ll bet neither Fred nor Bill can remember who owns what.

If ever you need bespoke joinery you’ll be glad of Fred and Bill. I know I have in the past. I’ve done jobs for them and every time it’s been a case of “I don’t want paying, but can you…..” “No problem lad, you’ve done for us, will next week do you?”

 

[netblindpaul]

Tony,
My comment is a reality check for these guys, the insurance companies have changed their policy wording.
Remember they can't operate without employers liability if the employ.
If they are a ltd. co. one director will be held responsible in the event of ill health or accident by HSE, they will pick one, the law ensures that.

I have plenty of these small joineries that I know and help.

darkwood,
You need to operate in high backside covering mode else you could be culpable.
forget the COSHH etc. perhaps the PUWER98, but only to a certain extent, if you are putting yourself competent to work on the machine then you must be aware of the relevant statute law and industry guidance which applies to the work you do.

Phone, will be back in a bit.

 

[netblindpaul]

Can't remember now what I was going to post more on this now, as I've been interrupted sorry!

 

[Darkwood]

Can't remember now what I was going to post more on this now, as I've been interrupted sorry!

Must have been a mind tackling call lol, and in reply yes i know where your coming from but at the end of the day alot of business out there dont even have the basics in safety and employees protection ive worked on carding machines which have had all their guarding systems over-ridden and if i have to repair them i re-instate them before i leave but in the knowing that the 2 bit engineer will disconnect them again next day.... i include it on the invoice that found safety systems looped out and that they were reinstated with my repair i explain this and my jobs done. Ive had Health and Safety interview before after accidents on sites ive been on and they are totally aware what takes place and they are happy that i have covered my grounds and my approach to these jobs, if i design a machine control nowadays i always include a PLC and get a log of machine start/ stops and E-stop activations this way i can tell what date an e-stop may have been over-ridden as the pattern of usage changes.

 

[topquark]

Not to mention that the fine saw dust is highly flammable (almost like gas under the right (wrong) conditions).