phase rotation testers

[shanky887614]

anybody use them.

my jtl training advisor wants me to check phase rotation of motors for portfolio.

i don't see the point. the only motors we use are for fans and vsd driven so you can see what way they spin.

i thought fair enough if there not expensive ill have a look but at £100 ill pass

 

[snowhead]

i thought fair enough if there not expensive ill have a look but at £100 ill pass

£33

Fluke T90 Voltage & Continuity Tester | Testermans Electrical Testing Equipment Suppliers

 

[shanky887614]

£33

Fluke T90 Voltage & Continuity Tester | Testermans Electrical Testing Equipment Suppliers

got one and there crap, had one die on me after light use

 

[7029 dave]

Essential bit of kit for any Electrician, working on 3phase equipment, look on ebay £10starting, I have an analogue one and digi not very expensive but it does the job.

 

[Marvo]

If you're working on motors you need the 6 lead rotation tester. I'll see if I can find you a link to a decent one later when I have time.

**Edit** I couldn't find a link to the one we use, probably due to it being >20 years old.

Here's a new one http://www.biddlemegger.com/biddle/560060.pdf

 

[Guest77]

anybody use them.

my jtl training advisor wants me to check phase rotation of motors for portfolio.

i don't see the point. the only motors we use are for fans and vsd driven so you can see what way they spin.

i thought fair enough if there not expensive ill have a look but at £100 ill pass

I have one for sale, 65 quid with free delivery, only been used once, still in the box and an ethos.

 

[shanky887614]

I have one for sale, 65 quid with free delivery, only been used once, still in the box and an ethos.

can i get a pic or model?

 

[Guest77]

can i get a pic or model?

yeah no worries, I will pm the details over in the morning with a photo, it is a proper job, not a numties bit of kit.

 

[shanky887614]

yeah no worries, I will pm the details over in the morning with a photo, it is a proper job, not a numties bit of kit.

thanks mike

 

[telectrix]

so, mike. you didn't like the new avatar i picked for you. how about:



or:

 

[Guest77]

Nah I have a few nice avatars on my hard drive, I will probably put one up soon.

 

[telectrix]

no pleasing some peeople. :6:

 

[Guest77]

no pleasing some peeople. :6:

Thanks for the offer Tel.

 

[Marvo]

Just for the Fluke fanboys here's a Fluke that also tests motor direction. Buy Phase Rotation Testers Fluke FLUKE-9062 Phase Rotation Tester Test Probe CAT III 300V LED CAT III 300 V 400 Hz 400 V ac, Model 9062/UK Fluke FLUKE-9062 online from RS for next day delivery.

It appears they've got it down to a 3 lead device with the new digital versions. They used to be 6 leads and the one I have is analogue with a positive and negative scale.

 

[Knobhead]

So once you’ve checked rotation how are you going connect the motor?

40 years of dealing with motors and I’ve never used a rotation indicator.

 

[shanky887614]

So once you’ve checked rotation how are you going connect the motor?

40 years of dealing with motors and I’ve never used a rotation indicator.

so it spins in the right direction

ill be honest with you guys, i need one more for completing nvq list becauae the idiots give a long list off loads of things you need to do.


usually i connect cross fingers that o dont have to swap a phase over in isolator

 

[Marvo]

You connect the rotation tester to the motor and turn the motor by hand in the desired direction. The analogue needle settles in either the positive or the negative side of the scale. You then rotation test your supply with the other 3 leads and it will also indicate positive or negative. You make sure your supply rotation corresponds with your desired motor direction.

My tester can be a bit vague on very small motors <2HP. Above that size it's always worked well. We use it mostly on large screw compressors where reverse rotation destroys them.

I see the Fluke one I linked above detects the magnetic fields by proximity rather than being connected directly to the windings so they obviously improved them over the years. They're also about a tenth of the price I paid 2 decades ago so having seen this I'm tempted to get one.


**Edit** I'm almost in tearsat how cheap the Amprobe version is It's obviously using the older technology because you connect to the motor with leads and not just magnetic proximity like the Fluke. At the price though it's rude not to buy two of them if you ask me. http://za.rs-online.com/web/p/phase-rotation-testers/6655909/

 

[Knobhead]

Shanky, see PM.

 

[shanky887614]

Shanky, see PM.

yeah ive checked pm. we usually connect
l1 to u
l2 to v
l3 to w

but because we dont usually run a supply to our panels we don't know if the rotation will be correct

the direction it spins depends on the phase rotation if i remember what my tutor was telling me, (poles usually 120o apart if 3 poles)

:edit

phase rotation not angle as i was quite rightly picked up on.

getting my terminology mixed up lol

 

[Marvo]

If you're machine isn't rotation critical then you can just test run to visually check direction. If it's a fan and it's difficult to physically see it then obviously with an axial you can check if it's sucking or blowing. If it's a centrif or mixed flow it could move air in the same direction regardless of rotation depending on the blade-set but 98 times out of 100 it will have a lower running current in the correct direction plus it will be quieter in the correct direction.

 

[Silly Sausage]

yeah ive checked pm. we usually connect
l1 to u
l2 to v
l3 to w

but because we dont usually run a supply to our panels we don't know if the rotation will be correct

the direction it spins depends on the phase angle if i remember what my tutor was telling me, (poles usually 120o apart if 3 poles)

Eh?

What happens if you swap L2 & L3 say?

 

[shanky887614]

Eh?

What happens if you swap L2 & L3 say?

if reverses direction

it gets pushed/pulled by the poles.

if you swaped them then it would be affected by l3 before l2 so spin in the opersit direction.

 

[davesparks]

There you go then, direction of the motor depends on the phase rotation, not the phase angle

 

[ipf]

yeah ive checked pm. we usually connect
l1 to u
l2 to v
l3 to w

but because we dont usually run a supply to our panels we don't know if the rotation will be correct

the direction it spins depends on the phase rotation if i remember what my tutor was telling me, (poles usually 120o apart if 3 poles)

:edit

phase rotation not angle as i was quite rightly picked up on.

getting my terminology mixed up lol

What if it's 4 pole ?:laugh3:

 

[ipf]

So once you’ve checked rotation how are you going connect the motor?

40 years of dealing with motors and I’ve never used a rotation indicator.

Same here....more money making unnecessaries, IMO.

 

[shanky887614]

What if it's 4 pole ?:laugh3:

wouldnt come across one here mate, 3phase off vsd or built in vsd

 

[davesparks]

I thought poles always came in pairs in motors?

 

[shanky887614]

I thought poles always came in pairs in motors?

nah we have 6 pole motors

 

[davesparks]

Maths not your strong point then shanky?

6 poles is 3 pairs of poles!

 

[Knobhead]

The sensible method is spin the motor before the coupling is fitted.

Get the rotation wrong on some pumps and compressors your going to be changing the unit.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I thought poles always came in pairs in motors?

Have you been hanging around Dover ferry port?

 

[shanky887614]

Same here....more money making unnecessaries, IMO.

yeah jtl have a long list they want you to do.

if i miss anything ive got to do it in the training centre as a last resorts

 

[davesparks]

What is MICV?

 

[ipf]

wouldnt come across one here mate, 3phase off vsd or built in vsd

Hope you don't need any knowledge about them in the future, then.

 

[shanky887614]

What is MICV?

polymeroc sheith oror something acordong to iee

 

[davesparks]

That makes no sense, MICC is mineral insulated copper cable, so how can MICV be anything to do with a polymeric sheath?

 

[Knobhead]

Due to a hangover from the days of us having our own power station all the 11KV boards were BYR. We used 550V on the plants with the same rotation.

Then two new plants were build which were using this weird 433V. Some genius decided the rotation should be RYB. They were separate from the older plants so it didn’t matter.

Then it came to major alterations to one of the old plants. It was to retain 550V for some parts, 433 for the new stuff. Me being the resident idiot got lumbered with the job. First question, which rotation? Because it was overlapping with old stuff we went for BYR.

Again not really a problem as they were separate entities or so we thought. The plants spread out as they tend to and started to overlap. I got saddled with rebuilding a switchroom with 550V BYR, 433V RYB and 433V BYR. I was going dizzy! To add to the confusion the two 433V feeds could be interconnected.

 

[CockneyReject]

Don't envy you mate, borrow a fluke T100 off someone and get the unit/task signed off no point spending coin on something that sounds like will never be used again by yourself

oh and take a little time to brush up on your motor theory too

 

[CockneyReject]

Due to a hangover from the days of us having our own power station all the 11KV boards were BYR. We used 550V on the plants with the same rotation.

Then two new plants were build which were using this weird 433V. Some genius decided the rotation should be RYB. They were separate from the older plants so it didn’t matter.

Then it came to major alterations to one of the old plants. It was to retain 550V for some parts, 433 for the new stuff. Me being the resident idiot got lumbered with the job. First question, which rotation? Because it was overlapping with old stuff we went for BYR.

Again not really a problem as they were separate entities or so we thought. The plants spread out as they tend to and started to overlap. I got saddled with rebuilding a switchroom with 550V BYR, 433V RYB and 433V BYR. I was going dizzy! To add to the confusion the two 433V feeds could be interconnected.

Sounds like fun Tony, any oh **** moments or did it all turn on ok?

 

[shanky887614]

Don't envy you mate, borrow a fluke T100 off someone and get the unit/task signed off no point spending coin on something that sounds like will never be used again by yourself

oh and take a little time to brush up on your motor theory too

yeah i know i need to brush up, havent used some of the knowledge since i got my level3 cert back in 2012.

 

[Knobhead]

Sounds like fun Tony, any oh **** moments or did it all turn on ok?

There's been a few "Why did I do that?" moments.

The best bit was being accused of being drunk. The above switchroom and the great white chief showed up. He noticed incomer 1 was BYR, incomer 2 RYB. Off he goes to the engineering manager saying I must have been drunk to make such a stupid mistake.

At least he had the decency to come back and apologise.




The bottom line, even if the LV intake is reversed so long as the system follows the same rotation throughout you won’t get a problem.

Note, I did say LV, once transformers get involved then there’s phase shift to take in to account. I’ve seen some glorious balls up due to that!

 

[Simon-0116]

Use mine for setting 3 phase sockets up as 123 so all machines working same no matter were plugged in

 

[davesparks]

But you test phase sequence as part of inspection and testing so why do you then need to go round and test with a rotation tester aswell?

 

[shanky887614]

But you test phase sequence as part of inspection and testing so why do you then need to go round and test with a rotation tester aswell?

not all mft's have a phase rotation setting and try getting rotation right on a ct pump when you cant get to fan on pump and no phase tester