RCD Protection for submains

[Bellendian]

That you should code in accordance with BS7671.
i.e. don’t code a socket for non-compliance with a requirement that was dropped 11 years ago.

It wasn't really 'dropped' though, simply superceded by the requirement that all socket outlets below 20a require 30ma additional protection.
But the level of danger posed remains different as per the best practice guidance. That states c2 if kit likely to be used outdoors and c3 for other socket outlets if I remember correctly.

 

[Toneyz]

Is it just me, when replaying to a comment the dam site freezes and you end up posting the same message twice!

Yes, for some time now I thought it was only me!

 

[DPG]

Just to lighten things up a bit, what happened to the thread where the guy was openly offering cash for someone doing his course work ?? Has it been deleted?

 

[Bellendian]

Mods must have done a deal

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It wasn't really 'dropped' though, simply superceded by the requirement that all socket outlets below 20a require 30ma additional protection.
But the level of danger posed remains different as per the best practice guidance. That states c2 if kit likely to be used outdoors and c3 for other socket outlets if I remember correctly.

That’s probably where this confusion originates.
BS7671 no longer says “may reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment for use outdoors”.
It now says shall be provided for mobile equipment for use outdoors.
The requirement has shifted from the socket to the mobile equipment.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think the server doesn’t have enough RAM.

 

[Upton Sparks]

Any reason why you dislike my post Anthony ?Please feel free to comment.

 

[Toneyz]

Any reason why you dislike my post Anthony ?Please feel free to comment.

Yes the reason was the same as DPG gave there is no discrimination between the two RCD's should a fault happen of say 35mA to one of the electrical items used in one of the rooms.

 

[Risteard]

not how people might use the installation.

How the installation is used is absolutely relevant.

 

[Risteard]

The requirement has shifted from the socket to the mobile equipment.

It really hasn't shifted. It has been enhanced to cover all socket-outlets. So you can't sensibly claim that the requirement has been removed.

 

[Upton Sparks]

Sorry Antony. my iPad had not full refreshed I see your comment and I get your point.

Yes many years ago we just relied on a fuse and they were very good, then RCD came along. I agree there is an over reliance on them.
" we may have a problem or I'm not sure if we do or not , I know lets thrown an RCD at it"

The way I look at it the first cars didn't have seat belts, after a few accidents seat belts came along. Then a few years later we got air bags,
Things improve all the time. RCDs make installations safer.

As for the installation it's hard to tell but from an experience I had with twin and Earth sub mains they were in the stud wall of the room quite obvious the cable zone when your in the room . But this wall formed the out side corridor. At this point it was not obvious of the cable safe zone

I don't believe put a RCD on sub main on is a good idea ( that is down to the designer of the circuit) . But it would conform with the regulations. Cables buried in the fabric of the building with out RCD protection is a code on an EICR and if it's a commercial building then there are health and safety issue as well.

In my case we replace the sub mains with SWA, as the level,of disturbance which was reasonable foreseeable by installing an RCD was not acceptable to him as a business.

Either way unprotected cable buried in to the fabric of the building needs RCD protection, if you can verified these cables are buried deep enough through and run in safe zones happy days, if not then you need to think very carefully on how you coded it.

Hence if they had all there paper work I would have confidence they were on the ball and in control of their installation I may be persuaded to give them a code 3,
Personally I am not in the business of trying to give satisfactory EICR as if I'm not happy it's unsatisfactory.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It really hasn't shifted. It has been enhanced to cover all socket-outlets. So you can't sensibly claim that the requirement has been removed.

It has been removed.
Yes we now have a requirement for all socket-outlets to be RCD protected.
If the sockets don’t have RCD protection then apply a code, simples.
Don’t apply a code to some sockets and then another code to other sockets because of a Regulation that’s 11 years out of date.

 

[Nigel]

It has been removed.
Yes we now have a requirement for all socket-outlets to be RCD protected.
If the sockets don’t have RCD protection then apply a code, simples.
Don’t apply a code to some sockets and then another code to other sockets because of a Regulation that’s 11 years out of date.

So you would code a socket next to a bath the same risk as a socket in the loft feeding an arial booster?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So you would code a socket next to a bath the same risk as a socket in the loft feeding an arial booster?

You’re just being silly now.
A socket next to a bath would be a C2 because it’s within 3m of the bath.
A socket in a loft, would be no code because sockets are allowed in lofts.

 

[Ian1981]

Yeh let’s give a disagree to all comments because my dummy has well and truly been spat out!
Like I said before block my comments if you don’t like what I say

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is that better?
I do get fed up with members who hit the disagree button, but aren’t able or willing to explain why.
For instance the last post of mine, do you disagree that the requirement to provide RCD protection for socket-outlets that would reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment out doors has been removed?
Do you disagree that we now have a requirement to provide RCD protection to all sockets?
Or is it that you disagree that we shouldn’t apply a code to an installation based on an 11 year out of date requirement?

 

[Ian1981]

Just makes you look like a bigger tool