Ripped off by cowboy

[Str82ais]

Hello all,

I just bought a flat and had an electrician install a new fuseboard, 2019 compliant, do some surface trunking to install new sockets, and prep the kitchen for renovation. Well, he turned out a “bad guy.” I could tell halfway in because he started saying that’ll cost extra to everything. His apprentice drilled six holes through the other side of the walls he was drilling through. Just to afix the surface trunking. I had chosen to do surface trunking to avoid chasing and to avoid redecorating costs. Needless to say, I am now redecorating!

By the end, it was evident he was rushing the job. Kept saying I wasn’t paying him enough and that’s what you get.

He said I would get a certificate. In the end, he rushed off in a huff and did not hand me anything. I paid him £1120. He said he was owed £250 more.

I got a new electrician today and he said he would charge £750 to “correct” the other guy’s mistakes and issue both flat and kitchen certs of compliance with regs.

What is going on? How should I have handled this better!

I am planning to live in the property, do I need to get certs at all?

Am I being ripped off? (YES!)

 

[Dustydazzler]

Unfortunately you got burned by the original guy.
Fortunately you only got burned for a grand.
I have known people get taken for much much much more.
Get all the remaining work completed by a decent electrician, get all your certs for the job.
Put it down to a terrible experience but move on.

 

[telectrix]

might be worthwhile getting trading standards involved. also post his details on here. name and shame.

 

[Deleted account]

Devils advocate.
There is always 2 sides to a story.

I’m not doubting you. There are bad workmen out there.

What did the second sparky say he had done that was incorrect?

Photos would be good.

 

[Str82ais]

Devils advocate.
There is always 2 sides to a story.

I’m not doubting you. There are bad workmen out there.

What did the second sparky say he had done that was incorrect?

Photos would be good.

I will post pictures.

The new electrician starts work tomorrow. So I will make sure to capture the state of play before he starts.

Already, upon the new electrician’s request, some chasing has been carried out. So whatever I post will NOT be how Nigel left things. It will be the start of the fix.

 

[Deleted account]

Is it electrical safety your concern or the workmanship?

Maybe the new sparky could come online let us know what the issues are.

 

[telectrix]

I will post pictures.

The new electrician starts work tomorrow. So I will make sure to capture the state of play before he starts.

Already, upon the new electrician’s request, some chasing has been carried out. So whatever I post will NOT be how Nigel left things. It will be the start of the fix.

before the "new" sparks starts (apart from the chasing), get his advice and take pics. of whatever is wrong before he alters anything. if you ever go down the legal path, these would be invaluable in helping you get some recompense from sparks #1.

 

[telectrix]

just done some reseqarch and they are NICEIC and also on checkatrade. complaints to both these organisations could start the shyte on route to the fan.

 

[Deleted account]

just done some reseqarch and they are NICEIC and also on checkatrade. complaints to both these organisations could start the shyte on route to the fan.

First thing I did.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Takes pictures of the previous work before you or the other sparks touches it

 

[telectrix]

Takes pictures of the previous work before you or the other sparks touches it

see post#8.

 

[Str82ais]

Okay - I will be sure to get pictures today. I will try to get the new electrician to say on camera what the problems are. If not, will try to document what he says.

Just to be clear: there is no evidence of money paid. Nigel did not provide a receipt or invoice and I paid him in cash.

I know I am an idiot — I thought I had a gentlemen’s relationship with him and he’d just been to the hospital with heart problems and made it out like people like me were the cause of his health problems. So I was keen to not mess him around. It’s only after the second electrician came in that I discovered the extent of the unsafe work he’d carried out.

 

[Sintra]

I have removed the name of electrician1 for now as the op hasn’t stated what the original contract with this guy was. Also no information with regards to the safety of the work carried out.

 

[Str82ais]

I won’t be able to post pictures today — not going to flat after all. (Am living elsewhere.) Am definitely planning to get pictures tomorrow before the start of new works.

Re: contract. Please advise how to evidence that.

Re: safety issues. The second electrician mentioned things like: connecting boiler to spur via long wire that would travel 1.8m to spur. Running hob cable directly without isolator. Not chasing into wall for hob wires. Diagonal connection of wire to under-cabinet lights. He said they should run vertically and then horizontally.

 

[Deleted account]

I won’t be able to post pictures today — not going to flat after all. (Am living elsewhere.) Am definitely planning to get pictures tomorrow before the start of new works.

Re: contract. Please advise how to evidence that.

Re: safety issues. The second electrician mentioned things like: connecting boiler to spur via long wire that would travel 1.8m to spur. Running hob cable directly without isolator. Not chasing into wall for hob wires. Diagonal connection of wire to under-cabinet lights. He said they should run vertically and then horizontally.

Don’t see a safety issue with 1.8m wire to boiler.
You said earlier that to avoid expense and redecoration you didn’t want anything chased.
Also if the cable isn’t chased it doesn’t need to be within zones, so the diagonal wire I don’t see an issue if there is no chance of drilling through it accidentally.

Hob directly wired without isolator. If it’s the only load on a circuit I don’t see any major safety issues other than local isolation, but yes Guidlines do state a local means of isolation.

Doesn’t sound like any major issues except fitting an isolator for hob.
Was it an existing circuit to the hob that was altered or was the hob replaced. Or is it a whole new hob circuit.

If it’s an already existing circuit that didn’t have an isolator, if it’s swapping like for like upgrade with an isolator would be advisable, but it depends on what you where quoted for instructed or wanted

 

[Str82ais]

Don’t see a safety issue with 1.8m wire to boiler.

You said earlier that to avoid expense and redecoration you didn’t want anything chased.
Also if the cable isn’t chased it doesn’t need to be within zones, so the diagonal wire I don’t see an issue if there is no chance of drilling through it accidentally.

Hob directly wired without isolator. If it’s the only load on a circuit I don’t see any major safety issues other than local isolation, but yes Guidlines do state a local means of isolation.

Doesn’t sound like any major issues except fitting an isolator for hob.
Was it an existing circuit to the hob that was altered or was the hob replaced. Or is it a whole new hob circuit.

If it’s an already existing circuit that didn’t have an isolator, if it’s swapping like for like upgrade with an isolator would be advisable, but it depends on what you where quoted for instructed or wanted

* The 1.8m cable will run on floor under kitchen sink unit to cross over to the other wall where the boiler is.

* YES, I wanted to avoid chasing to avoid redecorating but he did anyway on some pretext or other and it was shoddy chasing, which he filled with a rubbery white compound. He said it’s all behind the cabinets anyway.

His apprentice drilled many holes to attach surface trunking to wall. Guess what? Six of those times he went through the wall.

* I agree with you that the diagonal thing is a strict understanding of the regs that the 2nd electrician stated so he can rack up the number of mistakes he could point to. But Nigel’s solution is a risk. It assumes I will never drill through the kitchen cabinet.

* The hob was replaced. He used the old cable feeding the old cooker to feed the new hob without an isolator. And he wanted me to plug the oven into a normal socket. 2nd electrician says that too is wrong.

* By the way the points are from my recollection. Tomorrow I will post a fuller breakdown.

* The quotation was vague and gobbledygook as far as I am concerned. It’s easy for you to say stuff in hindsight but if I was talk C++ at you, you’d say “right, excellent, whatever, can you just see to it that it’s taken care of.” Nigel spoke breezily and gave me the impression that he’s fitted hundreds of kitchens. He’s around 60. I trusted him. I am not a trained “instructor of electricians” so let’s all stop this wishy-washy nonsense of “well, it depends.” He did shoddy work and ran off. End of.

 

[Str82ais]

This is what he stated in his quote:

“Kitchen

F. Reposition 4 sockets flush & cooker switch, Replace centre light [free issue] “

He did not replace centre light for starters.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Cable laying loose under kitchen units is pretty common

Especially if it’s an existing kitchen being worked around

 

[Str82ais]

Cable laying loose under kitchen units is pretty common

Especially if it’s an existing kitchen being worked around

It is not an existing kitchen, sir. It is a bare kitchen.

The 1.8m cable has a join in it. Edit: the join is a type of bridge connector, connecting the boiler white cable with a pre-existing isolator switch cable that was dangling from the previous kitchen installation.
Water can touch this connector because it will run under the kitchen sink.

 

[Dustydazzler]

A cable laying under the units is as I say fairly common

Having a join in it isn’t ideal but again if done correctly is ok

Need to see pictures to really comment further

 

[DPG]

You never mentioned a dodgy joint in your original post.

 

[Midwest]

It is not an existing kitchen, sir. It is a bare kitchen.

The 1.8m cable has a join in it. Edit: the join is a type of bridge connector, connecting the boiler white cable with a pre-existing isolator switch cable that was dangling from the previous kitchen installation.
Water can touch this connector because it will run under the kitchen sink.

I can understand your frustration, if you feel you’ve been had over, but from your tone here, I suspect you think ‘we’ are closing ranks. Nothing further from the truth; if you puruse some threads on this forum, the guys are quite critical of each other.

Some ‘customers’ have a concept of what an electrical install should be like, and on the face of it, yours doesn’t sound as if it’s very good.

But pictures may help us make an abstract decision.

 

[telectrix]

as above.without pictures, we're guessing. description is OK up to a point, but sometimes your description may give wrong impression so something that is OK may seem bad, and vice versa. we need pics. but please not of cheesecake. spoon is already drooling.

 

[Deleted account]

If after seeing the photos and I think it’s bad workmanship or a safety issue I will say so and I will criticise him.
but I am trying to be objective and don’t want to start second guessing what may or may not be. It would be unfair on the first electrician to do so if he has done nothing wrong.

I’ve commented on what your second electrician has stated only.

Sorry if you think my comments are wishy washy nonsense.

I’m trying to give you an informed opinion on requirement in electrical installation which I presume is what you wanted.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Well if hes on checkatrade complain to them about him. They will take him off the site and might stop him fleecing others.

 

[Diddy]

I think what some of the guy's are saying is watch out as you might find that electrician 1 has been a little shoddy or even "followed what you asked for to the letter) albeit his apprentice drilled through wall 6 times - i mean that is careless but can usually be "fixed" pretty easily.
It is difficult to do electrical work without ANY decorating.
Like I say though the chaps are trying to make sure electrician number 2 is not just making it all up to suit a "concerned customer" with the aim of having you over for hundreds of pounds more when strictly speaking you may not need to.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Water can touch this connector because it will run under the kitchen sink.

In that case you need a plumber. Kitchen sinks should not leak.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Running hob cable directly without isolator.

An isolator may 'nice to have', but it is not a requirement in the regs as you can isolate at the CU.

 

[Str82ais]

I have a few videos to upload. Too big. How do you suggest I share them?

 

[Str82ais]

Kitchen design for this wall: partition 1 (60cms) free standing fridge, partition 2 (60cms) builtin oven under a normal worktop, partition 3 (60cms) hob, partition 4 (30cms) a unit, partition 5 (60cms) free standing washing machine.

Fridge socket over on left — no changes here.

Chasing in the wall leading to the box: this has been deepened and widened based on 2nd electrician’s instruction. Prior, it was half as wide and less deep. 2ndEl plans to house to cables in the widened channel.

The blue cable fed the power switch of the oven in the old kitchen.

Nigel had decided to have no use for this channel and box — wanted them filled in. Instead, he extended the blue cable to the right and hung it on a clip. Nigel repurposed it to feed the hob directly without switches intervening. The length of the cable is too short to reach the hob but Nigel thought it’ll make it just.

 

[Str82ais]

The chasing for a box and a channel is new and was carried out as per 2ndEl instruction. Ignore that for now.

Nigel’s plan for the bottom row was:

Feed the oven from the first white socket. The double socket will feed the washing machine and have a spare socket. He blanked the middle socket.

At worktop level: Nigel installed a new socket through chasing a box in the wall and feeding it through the grey cable from the bottom row.

Along that same worktop row: he installed two spurs (one for the hood), and one for the under cabinet lights, followed by a spare double socket for general kitchen use.

 

[Str82ais]

Note everything at the worktop level is in this picture is new and is Nigel’s work.

There was a fair amount of chasing here. Four boxes plus the white-covered vertical chasing.

The deep, rectangular chasing up top — that’s not Nigel’s work and is based on 2ndEl’s instruction.

The way Nigel left it was he left the two grey cables at the pencilled line. He hung one of them off a clip which is not far from the pencilled line, and the other he pulled diagonally and hung at the clips just above the newly-drilled box.

 

[Str82ais]

The boiler is fed via the cable on the opposite wall. You can see there are two joins there. This long cable was supposed to run under the kitchen sink unit.

The two cables coming out of the wall connect to the spurs shown in the second picture. One for the boiler, one for the dishwasher, which supposed to be in the corner.

 

[DPG]

Some of that looks very amateurish. To be fair though your opening post about the boiler cable said the problem was it being 1. 8m long. Then you said it had a joint in it. Now it's got 2 joints in it.

 

[Dustydazzler]

If it were me and this is just my personal view , I would re-wire the lot before even attempting to set the new kitchen units in.
For a good experienced sparks it a days work , day and half tops to fully re-wire that small kitchen space...

 

[Midwest]

I’m not quite sure the blue cable is suitable to provide a supply for a cooker point.

The cable for the boiler supply needs replacing, to remove unnecessary joints, and fixed to the wall; the service void under the floor units could be used.

The cable from above the worktop to the sockets below, should either be flushed in or run on the surface; a combination of both is not very good workmanship.

I’ve used plastic trunking to run cables in the floor service void, but I would normally wait for the plaster finish to be completed.

All in all, it’s not a very professional finish, even at just the first fix stage. I wonder about the rest of the install, that this alteration is joining up to?

 

[Str82ais]

Not sure I understood your last question, Midwest. The other wall has electrics on it but I left it out for now because it’s passable.

 

[Str82ais]

Guys,

The 2nd electrician has done a runner. He did not turn up today. Despite confirming on whatsapp on Thursday and despite new chasing having been instructed based on his new requirements.

Both electricians were sourced via mybuilder.

I am cornered and need to move quickly.

What’s the least amount of work necessary to finish this job?

I rung around several local electricians but it seems that they are loathe to “finish” each other’s work. Nobody wants the job.

If I find someone, can you advise on specific, clear instructions to conclude the job ASAP?

 

[Benchaffey]

'what's the least amount of work necessary to get it finished' that there is a good reason why nobody wants to do it.
The works not great, but with an Aldi budget did you expect waitrose?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Look , this is not rocket science. You need the kitchen rewired before you start putting units in.
It’s an absolute bread and butter job for any domestic electrician.
It’s about a day or twos work max.
This shouldn’t be that difficult for you to find a local electrician willing to do it.
Don’t ask for people ‘to finish of another’s botched work’ but ask for a quote on a full kitchen rewire.
I note your London area , try my trusted electrician or Thomas Nagy