Sense alarm Fire alarm

[cliffed]

having probs with Fire alarm.Its a sense alarm 2 wire,mcp's,detectors & sounders.
Goes into Fire mode,even when only 3 points are on circuit.
Are all their sounders compatible with the system,it's difficult to understand properly ,we have sounders,which are alarm sense,not the sounder & base ones,on their diagram.
Commissioning guy,going round in circles.

 

[Specialist]

What happens with nothing other than the end of line device connected across the panel terminals ?

 

[Leesparkykent]

having probs with Fire alarm.Its a sense alarm 2 wire,mcp's,detectors & sounders.
Goes into Fire mode,even when only 3 points are on circuit.
Are all their sounders compatible with the system,it's difficult to understand properly ,we have sounders,which are alarm sense,not the sounder & base ones,on their diagram.
Commissioning guy,going round in circles.

Have you connected the bases in parallel (if using standard bases)? Both in and out should be connected to L1 in +ve and L2-ve. Not how you would connect a coventional base using in and out.

 

[cliffed]

What happens with nothing other than the end of line device connected across the panel terminals ?

Panels fine

 

[cliffed]

Have you connected the bases in parallel (if using standard bases)? Both in and out should be connected to L1 in +ve and L2-ve. Not how you would connect a coventional base using in and out.

Yea,also no faults on cable,it's annoying

 

[Leesparkykent]

Split the circuit down by moving the EOL resistor, once you've narrowed it down to a section wago a detector at a time.

 

[cliffed]

Thxs had engineer with me,he was truly bamboozzed,gotta go back to sort.

 

[Specialist]

As Lee said, break the circuit down & bridge each head or call point one at a time.
I normally keep a set of short jump leads in my kit to quickly bridge things out.

 

[cliffed]

Do the souder connections have to be defo in & out

 

[Leesparkykent]

Do the souder connections have to be defo in & out

sounder base?

 

[Specialist]

Stupid question maybe, but is the Polarization right on the sounders ?.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Are you using sounder bases or have a sounder circuit? All the gear is alarmsense? EOL capacitor for detector circuits and EOL resistor for sounder circuits? If using separate sounders are they polarised?

 

[cliffed]

sounder base?

No these are open area sounders,that I think may be the problem,but they are alarm sense sounders

 

[cliffed]

Stupid question maybe, but is the Polarization right on the sounders ?.

This is exactly what I thought,are these compatible.

 

[cliffed]

Are you using sounder bases or have a sounder circuit? All the gear is alarmsense? EOL capacitor for detector circuits and EOL resistor for sounder circuits? If using separate sounders are they polarised?

No sounder circuit,all on same circuit,sounders are not base sounders,all alarm sense equipment.They are not polarity sensitive

 

[Specialist]

In the CFP alarm sense manual, the circuit showing the alarm sense sounders shows + - at the sounders.
I just took this to indicate the sounders were polarity conscious, although it doesn't actually say this. Says to look at the manuals for each device.

Just looked on the C-tec website, your right they're not polarity conscious. In answer to your earlier question, it looks like all 5500 series sounders are compatible.

 

[Leesparkykent]

@tazz would be the man in the know... from what I've read the sounders must be polarised they sit at a voltage between 9V-15V when quiescent and when the voltage rises above 20V the sounders activate.

 

[Specialist]

@tazz would be the man in the know... from what I've read the sounders must be polarised they sit at a voltage between 9V-15V when quiescent and when the voltage rises above 20V the sounders activate.

Hi Lee: On the C-tec site they show as Polarity Insensitive.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Have you dissed the circuit and checked the resistance?

 

[Specialist]

How many zones are you using ?

 

[cliffed]

In the CFP alarm sense manual, the circuit showing the alarm sense sounders shows + - at the sounders.
I just took this to indicate the sounders were polarity conscious, although it doesn't actually say this. Says to look at the manuals for each device.

Just looked on the C-tec website, your right they're not polarity conscious. In answer to your earlier question, it looks like all 5500 series sounders are compatible.

Thanks

 

[cliffed]

How many zones are you using ?

2 zones

 

[cliffed]

Have you dissed the circuit and checked the resistance?

Not checked the Eol resistance yet,the engineer didn't look at that

 

[Specialist]

2 zones

Are both showing faulty or just 1 ?

Just read your post in reply to Lee, you mention End of line resistance ?
The manual I've got, shows 0.47uf 50v End of line Capacitors on the sense circuits.
The 6k8 resistors are for when you install conventional sounder circuits.

 

[Specialist]

Wonder how this turned out in the end ?

 

[telectrix]

Wonder how this turned out in the end ?

end of line or end of saga?

 

[Specialist]

Possibly a mix up with the capacitors & resistors, we may never know.

 

[cliffed]

Cheers,on hols at moment,will update when home,they are resistors on circuits for Eol

 

[tazz]

Are you using Apollo Alarm Sense or are you using a 2 wire system.
If your using a 2 wire system then the sounders must be wired reverse polarity. All fire alarms weather on sounder circuits or combined zone circuit, change polarity when in alarm status, this is why bells etc have blocking diodes. Can you state the panel and exact equipment your using

 

[Leesparkykent]

Are you using Apollo Alarm Sense or are you using a 2 wire system.
If your using a 2 wire system then the sounders must be wired reverse polarity. All fire alarms weather on sounder circuits or combined zone circuit, change polarity when in alarm status, this is why bells etc have blocking diodes. Can you state the panel and exact equipment your using

do they have to be wired in reverse? I was reading this link which said they are operated on voltage. Apollo Fire - 55000-017APO - AlarmSense Open-Area Sounder Visual Indicator - https://www.apollo-fire.co.uk/products/range/alarmsense/sounder-visual-indicators/55000-017apo-alarmsense-open-area-sounder-visual

 

[tazz]

This is what we need to know....is it alarm sense or 2 wire, once with have the make of panel etc we sort

 

[Specialist]

That's the info I read as well Lee, think the op said 2 wire.

 

[tazz]

having probs with Fire alarm.Its a sense alarm 2 wire,mcp's,detectors & sounders.
Goes into Fire mode,even when only 3 points are on circuit.
Are all their sounders compatible with the system,it's difficult to understand properly ,we have sounders,which are alarm sense,not the sounder & base ones,on their diagram.
Commissioning guy,going round in circles.

From the first quote its states sense alarm 2 wire systems, this could be Fire Sense, 2 wire system...it could be Apollo Alarmsense, Could be Haes 2 wire....so once we get all the info we can go from there

 

[cliffed]

This is what we need to know....is it alarm sense or 2 wire, once with have the make of panel etc we sort

Yes it's a alarm sense system,a Haes panel,& appollo sounders

 

[cliffed]

Back off hols on Sundsy,then to work,hopefully someone else sorted it ha ha.

 

[cliffed]

Wondering that too

 

[cliffed]

Sorry about the waiting,all ok now,it was a loose smoke detector,not fitting to base properly.
Always the same the worst one to get at,needed scaffold to reach it.
Thanks for all your help.