C-TEC fire alarm compatibility

[oscar21]

Hi, I need to extend a fire alarm, the panel is a CTEC CFP 2 zone one and currently it has a couple of apollo alarm sense sounder bases/heads on it. I fitted 2 extra normal (non-sounder) alarm sense bases and alarm sense heads but the panel is showing a fault on that zone, the fault clears if I bypass the two conventional base's. All the heads work on the sounder bases.

Are the alarm sense conventional bases compatible with the CFP panels because the instructions just show a diode base in the wiring diagrams, if they aren't then why do the alarm sense sounder bases/heads work ok.

Edit - I've just checked the CTEC site and it does say the panels are compatible with the alarm sense stuff. Why would it show a fault then if it clears when you bypass either base, they are definitely wired the correct way round. The bizzare thing is the panel still shows a fault if you put the end of line capacitor in the panel along with the fire alarm circuit if either base is in he circuit it that makes sense.

Edit 2 - I didn't get any instructions with the bases as they were just loose in the package but apparently you don't wire the alarm sense bases across L1 and L2, both browns go in L1. Fancy having an L2 connection then, its just inviting trouble, luckily they are only £3 each.

 

[westward10]

I know what I would be doing. Start van and wave good bye.

 

[peteronowak]

Another (better) possibility, look at ESP Magfire - I think they make a 12 zone conventional panel. Very basic but it might be your only option.

Hi again Tim,

what about this panel (also from CTEK)

FF392-2 FP 12 Zone Conventional Fire Alarm Panel

C-TEC's BS5989-4 compliant FP 12 Zone conventional fire panel c/w 2 sounder circuits. Not suitable for new installations in the EU.

c-tec.com

This would look to me as though it can take 12 zones, so connecting each device up individually and create a zone for each and every device... would that not work?

Obviously also close each device with a EOL...

 

[timhoward]

Hi again Tim,

what about this panel (also from CTEK)

It would work.
The thing it is does say "this panel in not compliant with EN54-2/4 and should NOT be used in new UK or European installations"....
You could do with some advice from a current fire alarm engineer as I got out of this game a long while ago, and can't give you any info about whether the lack of compliance of EN54 on that panel is an issue or not.

 

[peteronowak]

It would work.
The thing it is does say "this panel in not compliant with EN54-2/4 and should NOT be used in new UK or European installations"....
You could do with some advice from a current fire alarm engineer as I got out of this game a long while ago, and can't give you any info about whether the lack of compliance of EN54 on that panel is an issue or not.

aha... indeed well spotted Tim, I did not catch that... well, I will try to get in touch with someone to hear about this non compliant issue... and to hear if there is perhaps a panel that would support 12 individual zones and be compliant

 

[westward10]

What is the story behind this. Was it your job to design and install the system or are you trying to patch up someone else's mess.

 

[peteronowak]

What is the story behind this. Was it your job to design and install the system or are you trying to patch up someone else's mess.

I am the owner of the property, cabling was done by someone who obviously did not know whst they were doing

 

[westward10]

So you employed someone to install a fire alarm system but you are trying to sort the mess and the control panel, why?

 

[peteronowak]

So you employed someone to install a fire alarm system but you are trying to sort the mess and the control panel, why?

because I want/need a functioning fire alarm system.

 

[westward10]

But you employed them to do this have they left you high and dry.

 

[Yozza19]

The best way (not the cheapest )
Is to install a small single loop addressable pannel eg advanced or c tec xfp and 9 no sun rail zone monitors
This would be a compliant system

 

[DPG]

Agree with Westward here - you need to get the guy back to put things right, rather than fanny* about trying to bodge a solution. Have you paid him?

*can I say fanny on here?

 

[oscar21]

Did you badger the spark to install the system because he was cheaper than a fire alarm company? People ask me to do all the donkey work pulling in data cables and stuff for other people all the time, ok I'll graft my arse off pulling in all your cables and you turn up in a suit and tie, program it all and make 10 times as much as me, I don't think so.

This sounds like a typical installation that ends up with holes everywhere, chancers wired the fire alarm in a star configuration but probably daisy chained the network cables, don't you just love em.

Reminds me of a job we did last year, a 7 bed HMO, we priced for the electrics, emergency lights and fire alarm, we only got the electrics part as he had a mate "that could do fire alarms". I was there whilst he was installing it and I thought it was all a bit strange, he looped a piece of 4 core FP cable in and out of every point but it just ended up as a radial at the furthest away point ,no loop, no separate circuits, just one big radial. When it was finished he had just put a load of Aico smoke detectors at every point, no fire panel just domestic smokes. Not sure how that has gone down with the council/licencing body, I thought a HMO had to have a proper fire alarm system, I priced for an addressable system at about £5k. Also I still don't think he ever connected the emergency lights or the smoke detectors to the mains, he must have assumed I was going to do it for some odd reason.

 

[MJPD29]

Or have you wired it yourself…

 

[Kenny212]

If the wiring can't be corrected , the best solution is to get a cheap 1 loop addressable fire alarm panel and create a loop and install isolators at the fire alarm panel and connect each zone cable to a different isolator and change all the non addressable devices to addressable devices and then you can put each device in the correct zone and put in location text of each device