tails into consumer unit enclosure

[Graham Hyde]

Went on a job today to an HMO to replace a broken cctv camera outside.
the landlord of the house is too tight with his wallet to change the consumer unit to an Amendment 3 metal CU. instead he has enclosed the old wylex plastic CU into a metal enclosure. although he is willing to fork out on cctv so he can in his words 'monitor' the tenants!
The plastic CU has the mains tails going through the one gland entry point which is as i was taught in college and on my apprenticeship. This is not i believe so much an issue on plastic enclosures but on metal enclosures prevents eddy currents.
However, given the landlord has enclosed the CU in a lockable metal enclosure(which has no earthing ) to meet the new criteria, he has the mains tails coming from the isolator going through separate holes, rather than a combined entry point, this surely now makes the metal unit holding the CU in breach of the regs... the line and neutral are in separate glands as is the earth- i don't see the earth as the issue though. all other wires leaving the CU exit through the back and run up inside the cavity wall.
I asked him who did the job and he was a bit non committal about it and seemed very vague, i suspect he either did it himself or got it done on the cheap. the guy appears to cut every corner possible and
have enclosed a picture trying to explain what I am saying. Didn't think to take a picture at the time, its something i have been thinking about since,
Anybody have thoughts on this?

 

[7029 dave]

TBH, it's not correct domestic installation, I would not sweat it too much. Cromets hopefully on knockouts at the very least.

 

[bigspark17]

Why would he have too upgrade or put a metal enclosure around the cu.?? Amd 3 would only apply to new installs or cu changes

 

[Graham Hyde]

From what little i have learnt about the landlord, from the guy i am working with at the moment, it is a requirement of his landlords insurance that the CU and any electrical work complies with the most recent standards and is fitted by an approved contractor from the insurances companies 'approved list' basically niceic and napit firms.
he has had various bits of work done on the system and new circuits added and so forth. Whether he needed to update it or not is not the issue it met the standards when installed.
By putting the metal enclosure around the CU, surely he then has to ensure it complies with the latest amd3 and have the tails in one entry point?

 

[Wilko]

I think so, see Reg 521.5.1

 

[7029 dave]

What do you mean by enclosure.? I take it the CU inside is plastic.?

 

[Andy-1960]

Hi Graham, yes you are quite correct, both live and neutral conductors should enter through the same hole in the steel box. The amount of heat produced will depend on how much current is being drawn and for how long.

 

[Graham Hyde]

What do you mean by enclosure.? I take it the CU inside is plastic.?

yes, the consumer unit is a plastic wylex model. the landlord has then had a metal lockable cabinet/unit placed on the wall enclosing the consumer unit. the tails enter the metal unit in separate points rather than a shared entry point. the tails enter the plastic CU in a shared point. surely the separate entry on the metal enclosure is a breach of regs ? also given the tails go through it, should it also be earthed?

 

[PEG]

Hi,i would suggest the landlord is telling stories...nobody would go to that amount of trouble,for nothing. The insurers do have criteria,i deal with them,but forcing through work to keep up with amendments,is a new one.

Had they imposed this onerous condition,it would come with the caveat of proof/certification,which could not be provided for your diagram.

I have seen this done before,and it was usually to restrict access,due to tampering,or damage.

Has this steel box got a door/lock?

If you are setting up his cctv cameras,fix one to view the metal box,between the tails,and put a thermal tell-tale on it...it probably won't ever pull enough to change colour...but he'll get the message

 

[7029 dave]

yes, the consumer unit is a plastic wylex model. the landlord has then had a metal lockable cabinet/unit placed on the wall enclosing the consumer unit. the tails enter the metal unit in separate points rather than a shared entry point. the tails enter the plastic CU in a shared point. surely the separate entry on the metal enclosure is a breach of regs ? also given the tails go through it, should it also be earthed?

It's a coverall then, agreed as stated they should be shared. But there not, did you tell the landlord yours concern.?That's all you can do.

 

[westward10]

Why does any of this concern you. He has probably enclosed it to stop tampering.

 

[Graham Hyde]

a bit more info. it seems the landlord is making a small fortune by renting out the rooms in the HMO's he owns to ayslum seekers, refugees etc via some sort of agreement with the home office. it explains all the foreign language notices on the walls.
It seems likely he has put the metal enclosure over the CU to prevent tampering.. and would explain the cctv throughout the house..
i am always a bit suspect of what he says, as he is motivated only by money and the houses are in a poor state of repair, he will do anything to save a few pounds.
The point of my post was to understand if the need for a shared entry point for the tails applied to an additional metal enclosure in the same way it does to the CU.
Beyond that and making sure any work i have been involved in complies, then i have no great interest, i feel its best to leave him to it.

 

[Andy-1960]

Reg 521.5.1

 

[Sparkie30]

Hi Graham, yes you are quite correct, both live and neutral conductors should enter through the same hole in the steel box. The amount of heat produced will depend on how much current is being drawn and for how long.

It needs to draw at least 120A to change the temp by 1-2 celsius.

Thanks

 

[Rpa07]

I'll bet that cctv has got an enormous hard drive sponsored by the state!

 

[Andy-1960]

It needs to draw at least 120A to change the temp by 1-2 celsius.

Thanks

So is my answer incorrect? Reg 521.5.1 says I am right. There are no caveats to say you can do it providing the current is low.

 

[westward10]

No it is incorrect.

 

[Graham Hyde]

I'll bet that cctv has got an enormous hard drive sponsored by the state!

the house has rfid fob access on the external doors and bedrooms with cctv in all communal areas. he can remotely view all comings and goings and given the big brother state we live in, i wouldn't at all be surprised if the home office do not check the footage to determine asylum claims and things..

 

[SparkyChick]

So is my answer incorrect? Reg 521.5.1 says I am right. There are no caveats to say you can do it providing the current is low.

You're right and I'm with you, you shouldn't do it.

 

[Sparkie30]

So is my answer incorrect? Reg 521.5.1 says I am right. There are no caveats to say you can do it providing the current is low.

Didnt mean to say you are incorrect Andy,
more to say, that some of the regs are just useless.

Thanks

 

[Sparkie30]

No it is incorrect.

If you are referring to me maybe worth watching this.

 

[Midwest]

If you are referring to me maybe worth watching this.

Outrageous, that's Pete's domain!

 

[Sparkie30]

Outrageous, that's Pete's domain!

Haha, do apologise.