Wiring puzzle

[999ase]

Hi all, I changed a one gang bedroom ceiling light switch to two, two gang, two way light switches placed either side of the headboard.

The idea being 1 gang on each switch will provide 2 way control of the ceiling light and the other gang will, in the future, provide one way control of a reading light placed either side of the headboard.

I bought some reading lights and when I tried to wire them I hit a problem. I don't have a neutral wire running down from the ceiling rose to the first switch. There is only a live, switched live and earth coming down from the rose into the first switch. I have run a 3 core and earth from first switch to second switch and placed live and switched live in L1 and L2 to get the two way system for the ceiling light working. What I can't work out is where do I connect the live and neutral wires from the reading light going into the second gang of each switch either side of the headboard and how do I bridge a live supply to from gang 1 to gang 2 and what do I do with the neutral. All highly confusing, any help and advice appreciated. Hope this makes sense and will add pics later.

 

[Highresdis]

Hi all, I changed a one gang bedroom ceiling light switch to two, two gang, two way light switches placed either side of the headboard.

The idea being 1 gang on each switch will provide 2 way control of the ceiling light and the other gang will, in the future, provide one way control of a reading light placed either side of the headboard.

I bought some reading lights and when I tried to wire them I hit a problem. I don't have a neutral wire running down from the ceiling rose to the first switch. There is only a live, switched live and earth coming down from the rose into the first switch. I have run a 3 core and earth from first switch to second switch and placed live and switched live in L1 and L2 to get the two way system for the ceiling light working. What I can't work out is where do I connect the live and neutral wires from the reading light going into the second gang of each switch either side of the headboard and how do I bridge a live supply to from gang 1 to gang 2 and what do I do with the neutral. All highly confusing, any help and advice appreciated. Hope this makes sense and will add pics later.

Well, you don't have a neutral and you will need a neutral to the new light.


You have a couple of options, one of which may be easier than the other, depending on your house and wiring.


1. Run a new cable from the existing light to one of the switches to supply a neutral.


2. Run a cable to the switch from elsewhere, eg another switch to supply the permanent live, and then you can repurpose the existing PL as a neutral from the light fitting.


Obviously, in the latter case, the 2 way switch wiring would need to be changed around to avoid the consequential live neutral short if you didn't!

 

[catdog1121]

Hi all, I changed a one gang bedroom ceiling light switch to two, two gang, two way light switches placed either side of the headboard.

The idea being 1 gang on each switch will provide 2 way control of the ceiling light and the other gang will, in the future, provide one way control of a reading light placed either side of the headboard.

I bought some reading lights and when I tried to wire them I hit a problem. I don't have a neutral wire running down from the ceiling rose to the first switch. There is only a live, switched live and earth coming down from the rose into the first switch. I have run a 3 core and earth from first switch to second switch and placed live and switched live in L1 and L2 to get the two way system for the ceiling light working. What I can't work out is where do I connect the live and neutral wires from the reading light going into the second gang of each switch either side of the headboard and how do I bridge a live supply to from gang 1 to gang 2 and what do I do with the neutral. All highly confusing, any help and advice appreciated. Hope this makes sense and will add pics later.

At the light switch you just have live and switched live + cpc as part of the ceiling light circuit. to do what you want to do there are a few ways of achieving what you want.

You either need to run the live neutral and cpc to the switch and then switched live neutral and cpc back up to the ceiling light and then from your two way switch switched live, neutral and cpc to reading lights.

Alternatively take a live neutral cpc feed from the light to one of the reading lights, then a live/switched live + cpc to one of the two way switches, then a switched live, neutral and cpc on to the other reading light.

Either way is acceptable. (You can also use 3 core and earth cables to reduce the number of cables)

 

[999ase]

Well, you don't have a neutral and you will need a neutral to the new light.


You have a couple of options, one of which may be easier than the other, depending on your house and wiring.


1. Run a new cable from the existing light to one of the switches to supply a neutral.


2. Run a cable to the switch from elsewhere, eg another switch to supply the permanent live, and then you can repurpose the existing PL as a neutral from the light fitting.


Obviously, in the latter case, the 2 way switch wiring would need to be changed around to avoid the consequential live neutral short if you didn't!

Thanks. Both options would require channeling a newly plastered and painted wall - which I was hoping to avoid ?

 

[catdog1121]

Well, you don't have a neutral and you will need a neutral to the new light.


You have a couple of options, one of which may be easier than the other, depending on your house and wiring.


1. Run a new cable from the existing light to one of the switches to supply a neutral.


2. Run a cable to the switch from elsewhere, eg another switch to supply the permanent live, and then you can repurpose the existing PL as a neutral from the light fitting.


Obviously, in the latter case, the 2 way switch wiring would need to be changed around to avoid the consequential live neutral short if you didn't!

1. You will end up with one light having neutral from the light and the other having neutral from the switch both in the same switch accessory which could be confusing, better to stick to neutral at the switch or neutral at the light in my opinion.

2. You could achieve this by using a 3 core cable instead of T+E, from the ceiling light, dont go grabbing a live from somewhere else again it will make it really confusing for future maintenance.

 

[catdog1121]

Thanks. Both options would require channeling a newly plastered and painted wall - which I was hoping to avoid ?

Yes... Unfortunately.

There is one other option in that case.

Change the ceiling light to a quinetic light switch (does not require a cable to the light switch), use a quinetic grid switch and another grid switch for the other lights, you can then repurpose the existing cable to have live, neutral and cpc.

You would still though need to get a cable from the switch to the reading lights, unless those reading lights are spot lights? in which case you can take the live neutral and earth on from the ceiling light and then move the cable going to the switch to be used as live/switched live for the reading lights, or put those on quinetic light switches and you dont need any cables to light switches.

 

[catdog1121]

You might be able to attach a 3core and earth cable to twin and earth cable and pull it up if the cable has been capped, I have done this on rewires, its a pain and you need 2 people and it sometimes works, sometimes doesnt.

 

[Strima]

A good get out option is to use wireless switches, I can't recommend any but they're worth looking at and may well pull you out of the sticky brown smelly stuff.

 

[999ase]

Thanks all. I can't replace the switches as fancy ones have already been bought and they have to match other switches in the room. Scratching my head at what the least messy option is ?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There is a solution if you have room for the modules and can tolerate occasional battery replacement. You can get a wireless link that connects to your existing fancy switch and sends its status to a receiver at the light. E.g.:

Easyswitch link system

That particular system only seems to offer control of multiple receivers from one transmitter but what you need is control of one receiver from two transmitters. Perhaps someone here knows which products allow that?

Then, with the ceiling light controlled by RF, you can use the two installed runs of cable simply as power feeds from ceiling to reading light 1 and loop onwards to reading light 2.