I know DNOs are not obliged to provide an earth, but...

[happysteve]

I know DNOs are not obliged to provide an earth, but the actions of WPD today really surprised me.

Was asked to swap a socket-outlet, did the usual basic checks, no earth to the property. Suburban, underground supply, possibly former TN-S (vague suggestion of the stub of a clamp round the sheath, but had been painted over decades ago), more likely earth had previously been supplied by water pipe as no seperate earthing conductor evident. Ze (yes, I know it's not a proper Ze as it's through the bonding) 1.48Ω.

BS 3036 fuses, no RCD.

Called WPD, put it through as an urgent call as single fault = somebody possibly dies. Connected an earthing conductor to MET, left it dangling with enough slack for them to connect it to the Henley Series 5 neutral block.

Engineer attended (I wasn't there), would not connect earth ("upgrade" to PME) unless they paid £148. Happy to leave the installation in the state it was while they mulled it over. Their logic was, "it's been like that more than 30 years..." I have strongly advised the customer to get the work done, but they're 87 and it's a lot of money for them so they're going to think about it...

 

[Octopus]

in 2 words:

Jobs worth

 

[buzzlightyear]

scrap the paint off the SWA and put a earth clamp on it ,and half the bill £74.00 POUND IN YOUR BACK POCKET .

 

[telectrix]

it's not SWA buzz. it's PILC. get a grip mate. (or a clamp).

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

how easily could you whack a rod in and make it TT? its likely not going to be any worse than it is at present.
The whole dno not providing an earth thing needs changing, I have had success previously arguing for a customer when the earth on a tns was missing... they refused to connect one. I argued that they are obliged to as if there earth fails they can not legally leave the house powered up without an earth as in the time between them leaving and me putting a rod in, should somebody get a nasty shock and dies then its wpd who gets the blame.. not me.
If they provide an earth then they have a duty of care to maintain it and if aware of a fault or issue, then they are not allowed to just say no earth put a rod in, as they are liable even if they dont like to admit it.. all depends who you speak to.. i would ring back and tell them this.. ask to speak to the duty manager/engineer and if necessary the complaints team.

 

[buzzlightyear]

it's not SWA buzz. it's PILC. get a grip mate. (or a clamp).

lost it their, what was I thinking did not read the post correct ,jumped in with both wheelies then.

 

[happysteve]

The issue here is that I'm not 100% certain they (WPD) ever did provide an earth. I said there was vague suggestion of a stub of a clamp around the PILC cable, but it might not have been. If they never did provide an earth to the property, I can see their argument for claiming they don't need to maintain it. And they're the only people who would know (unless my customer has some old black and white photographs of their service head with an earth strap on it, stored in a tin box somewhere).

It was their attitude of, "It's been fine for 30 years, we're not bothered," that shocked me. The only reason it's been fine for 30 years, is because there hasn't been a fault in that time. That's not evidence that things are ok to leave as they are, that's evidence that the customer's been bloody lucky!

 

[buzzlightyear]

if it was me and the DNO not supplying a earth ,I would ask them can you take the head away ,because I am getting a supply from china .
and see what they say then .

 

[ipf]

Dipsticks!
Where is the property? Is it a one off or are there any others similar in the vicinity? If so, see if you can check their earthing state. If there is evidence of previous tns, as you say, it's up to them to renew or upgrade.
Push them on it.

 

[ipf]

if it was me and the DNO not supplying a earth ,I would ask them can you take the head away ,because I am getting a supply from china .
and see what they say then .

The Chinese probably own the company, anyway.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The Chinese probably own the company, anyway

and getting electricity from the Yangzi's dam .

 

[ipf]

and getting electricity from the Yangzi's dam .

I knew them Yanks would be involved, somewhere!

 

[buzzlightyear]

very clever those chimpanzees .they can make anything over there beyond the great wall ,they can even send a man in to space .and boy how do they get them back if the guarantee runs out.

 

[Marvo]

We sometimes do charity work in rural areas installing boreholes and wellpoints in places where the women have to walk half a day for potable water. The only power available in the village was in a small communal hall (more like a shed the size of a double garage) which served as their meeting place, school, hospital etc. It had a 2-wire supply on a straight concentric cable and going by the volt dip under a known load the supply cable must have been at least 3 km long.

There was a small CU with no earth and a single socket circuit and a light circuit installed. At every socket and light point there was a link between the neutral and the earth screws which made it a TN-C installation to all intents and purposes. They said they'd never used the electricity since it had been installed several years previously by an Italian charity organisation because it gave them shocks which was hardly surprising given the length of the supply cable and lack of actual earth.

I ended up welding a large nut and fitting a lug to the borehole steel sleeve that went 140 meters into the ground behind the hall. I ran an earth to the CU from there and converted the installation leaving it sub-ohm TT.

 

[ipf]

We sometimes do charity work in rural areas installing boreholes and wellpoints in places where the women have to walk half a day for potable water. The only power available in the village was in a small communal hall (more like a shed the size of a double garage) which served as their meeting place, school, hospital etc. It had a 2-wire supply on a straight concentric cable and going by the volt dip under a known load the supply cable must have been at least 3 km long.
.

Where abouts in Yorkshire are you, Marvo?