Downlights and the different varieties..

[Marcus Vaughan]

JCC have now discontinued this line and flogged all their stock to a wholesale discounter.

Yep. I’ve got a box of them that I’m about to send back. Customer first wanted half cool white and half warm white, then changed their mind to all warm white - but ....... you can’t get them anymore...

I’m using Lucecos now.

 

[mattg4321]

I fitted about 100 Ecostar downlights that were specified on a job about 5 years ago and thought they were very nice. Would use them again, but the cost is pretty high.

I wouldn't use the integrated emergency packs again though. Rubbish!

I think I got them from Edmundsons.

I also fitted some Nemesis units also from Photonstar. They were nice too, and dimmed really well I seem to remember.

 

[Electric Magic]

There are a number of GU10 insulation coverable fittings. Enlite EFD Pro, Ansell Edge (with a 50p attachment), and Knightsbridge Evolve to name a few (all of which also use pushfit connectors and cost between £4 and £7 each). Only time I use integrated fittings (and then it's either Halers or Aurora M Pro) if there's insufficient space in the void for one of the GU10 fittings above.

 

[Marvo]

Never used the integrated fittings, they're not widely available here.

As for whether it's worth paying more for some brands of GU10, I'd say it is.

There's lots of considerations when specifying an appropriate lamp for a customer. Obviously price is one and reliability another but for some customers power factor could be very important if they're not billed in kwh for example. Some cheaper lamps have a power factor below 0.5 and their running costs would be sky high compared to a lamp with a PF of 0.9 or higher.

Stability under dimming is another and whether they will dim using both forward and trailing edge PWM which would mean the same lamps could be used everywhere on a premises. Also colour rendering and consistancy of colour throughout the premises is very important to some customers.

Product consistancy over time is another factor, cheaper brands tend to change internal components from one batch to another, this results in many inconsistancies from colour rendering and stability under low dimming levels to reliability.

I've always stuck with Enlite lamps, we had a commercial contract where we installed over 600 dimmable GU10's a couple of years ago and to date there's been zero failures.

 

[Bellendian]

My go to fitting is Enlite E8's. I'm a pretty firm believer in the fact that an integrated fitting can be designed properly to dissipate heat, rather than trying to cram it all into a gu10 style lamp plugged into a largely empty tin can!
Years back I kitted out a few rentals with the old deep can gu10s to take megaman gu10 cfls....they were a complete disaster, constantly failing, all now been replaced by E8s.
Have fitted hundreds now, only failure I'm aware of is 1 that failed after a day.
I like the fact that the E8 is a 'cover all' solution at a sensible price. Good for bathrooms, good for having fibreglass on top, interchangeable bezel colour, ticks a lot of boxes for me.

 

[Midwest]

They are wholesaler only as far as I know, the standard eco600 is around £30+vat off the top of my head

What! I'd rather buy a GU10 + can

 

[Starjack]

Well some interesting replies there with a big divergence in attitude towards integrated and non integrated.

I shall be sticking with non integrated I think. Like SC said, not being able to find a replacement 2 or 3 years later when they've gone out of stock would be embarrassing!

Cheers guys

You could be dead in 3 years time. Live for the moment.

 

[Starjack]

I was with a customer today discussing installing new downlights.

I can't quite see the point in installing the really expensive ones as opposed to the cheaper ones. I don't mean the silly cheap ones on ebay that will just fall apart, but for example...

Lap fixed LED from screwfix £7 approx (good reviews and feel like good quality) compared to JCC, robus, enlite etc etc £15-20?

Also, do you guys prefer integrated LED downlights or ones that you can change the bulb? Again, I struggle with the concept of integrated as you have to change the whole downlight when they go. Are they supposed to have a longer life expectancy? A quality LED lamp is supposed to have about 15 years life expectancy so why not just fit a downlight with a quality changeable LED lamp as opposed to an integrated unit?

Did you tell her about your new Toolbelt

 

[Starjack]

They're Lamps not Bulbs , it's like dealing with Plumbers

 

[davesparks]

What! I'd rather buy a GU10 + can

It's horses for courses I guess, personally I find GU10s and other low cost integrated fittings to be ugly and I'm pretty sure my customers wouldnt accept them either.

 

[123]

It's horses for courses I guess, personally I find GU10s and other low cost integrated fittings to be ugly and I'm pretty sure my customers wouldnt accept them either.

Got any images of the ones you use?

A google of eco600 doesn't look too great...
View attachment 48195

 

[Rpa07]

A really good quality dimmable GU10, that you don’t want to go back to because of failure, and the purchase of a can is going to cost you upward of £13 anyway so put in a bit more and invest in quality.
I had to kit out a kitchen with customer supplied accessories, half was Lap and the other half cheap Knightsbridge - I’ve never murmured under my breath as much - felt dirty!

 

[davesparks]

Got any images of the ones you use?

A google of eco600 doesn't look too great...
View attachment 48195

The 600 range is here:
http://ecostar.photonstarlighting.co.uk/products/Eco600+ Range - NEW FOR 2017

If I remember I'll take some pictures of them fitted tomorrow when I'm on site.

 

[DC-backfrom the past]

I tend to use enlite with the replaceable Led bulbs gu10s.
I offer the integrated lights as an option and explain they are disposable. customers always plump for ….
"the lights , we change the bulbs ourselves "

always find the customer doesn't want to pay for a new light and the labour on top after 3 years ...as we all know all the lights wont go at the same time ...so 6 lights to replace +labour can be a fortune.
6 bulbs is approx. £10 all in ..no comparison really

 

[Midwest]

If I had GU10 laps going after 3 years, I would be changing my make and or source. They should last years, same as integrated ones, so thats not an argument really IMO.

 

[Rocky1964]

I always use the Enlight EFD Pro. They have interchangeable bezels, are insulation coverable and available in standard, tiltable and IP65. Tool-less installation (loop in/loop out) and are very reasonably priced. I try not to use anything else. It also gives the customer to change their mind about the colour of light they prefer (without having to change the entire fitting).

 

[EbolaSideRoom]

I was a committed JCC user until they pulled the plug on the FG range; I’ve had no end of LED6 models either stop working altogether or start flickering.
To begin with JCC were happy to reimburse me for my time installing fittings replaced under warranty, giving me additional stock, not cash. Suited me. All of a sudden they declined to do so and I’m left with my customers having to foot the bill or fit them for gratis.
I’ve gone over to KSR. No issues so far.

 

[jcs8215248]

I always use the Enlight EFD Pro. They have interchangeable bezels, are insulation coverable and available in standard, tiltable and IP65. Tool-less installation (loop in/loop out) and are very reasonably priced. I try not to use anything else. It also gives the customer to change their mind about the colour of light they prefer (without having to change the entire fitting).

I specified (and obtained for the installer) Enlight fittings with exchangeable bezels for a kitchen refit. The removable bezels made painting the newly skimmed ceiling very fast.

Unfortunately the decorator replaced the bezels before the paint was dry (less than 5 minutes after painting). Paint turns out to be a very effective glue! I managed to free up all but one (out of 20). The decorator had to come back and remove the fitting from the ceiling, repair the ceiling, and patch the paint.

I do like, and recommend, them assuming that you have a competent decorator. They are easy for redecoration as long as you do not rush to put them back too soon!

 

[davesparks]

I tend to use enlite with the replaceable Led bulbs gu10s.
I offer the integrated lights as an option and explain they are disposable. customers always plump for ….
"the lights , we change the bulbs ourselves "

always find the customer doesn't want to pay for a new light and the labour on top after 3 years ...as we all know all the lights wont go at the same time ...so 6 lights to replace +labour can be a fortune.
6 bulbs is approx. £10 all in ..no comparison really

If you are telling the customer that they only last 3 years I'm not surprised they don't want them, if you told the truth about their rated lifetime and the length of warranty of good quality fittings you might find a different outcome.

 

[Toneyz]

With these JCC fittings was it the driver that failed? could it be replaced? we fit a lot of top end commercial fittings and a lot of them are well over £100 and only give a year warranty from delivery (it can be a further 2 months till the occupier moves in) with the fast-changing availability of fittings makes you wonder what will happen in a few years time.