Rogue Traders

[D Skelton]

I'm not quite sure what it's about yet but it looks like we have a rogue sparks on tonights Rogue Traders/Watchdog. Could be interesting.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I do think if people have those problems there should be a facillity to go to a scheme ops site and spend a day or so in a purpose built unit to prove comp

All very well but this unit would have to simulate problems encountered on site such as the borrowed neutral and awquard access etc....

 

[kung]

Make sure you wipe the lipstick off and change clothing before your assessment !

 

[High Tower]

As usual they only point out the bits that are negative and critisise all of it, they were making a point about the second guy painstakingly checking all of the terminals on the MCB's, granted he took forever to do it and was dithering like mad, but they were out of order pointing this out. If i was called out to this job although i would go straight to the board, i too would check all the terminations, given the nature of the fault. so now every time we go around checking terminations we will be accused of being a rouge trader.

 

[robsparky1975]

The thing is it's hard to get registered. I can't get work because I'm not registered and I can't register because I can't get the work to show an inspector. Catch 22
Nic want 5 jobs before they'll give me approved contractor status

You dont have to be with the niceic,you could choose many others,im with elecsa,only took him to a cu change,once they see you know your stuff thats it,the niceic are not helpful and need to realise some people need a foot on the ladder,this is why i went to elecsa,perhaps you could do a cu change any other part p notifiable works for friends/neighbours or family for a discounted rate to get up and running.you can tell labc before job commences and then once you get registered yourself dont need to speak to them anymore.

 

[kung]

All very well but this unit would have to simulate problems encountered on site such as the borrowed neutral and awquard access etc....

Quite right and im sure if it was rightly purpose built it should take into account most cases !

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Well today was a good example.....RCD random tripping at a house in gledhow (leeds)....so gets in and asks her the usual questions , like when appliances are used and if RCD trips at specific times of day (central heating or other timed devices) etc and no luck there....goes to the board to find a loose neutral on the RCD side.....so i thinks better to be safe than sorry and IR all circuits in RCD side for my own peace of mind and find low IR between line-neutral on the shower circuit. Now admittedly i know this wouldn`t affect the RCD but as it was found we isolated the shower until wee can get back and pull a new one in. The lady said she had an electrician out previously who couldn`t find the fault and i`m only an apprentice. The shower cable was only 4mm and the board had NIC stickers on it.........

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Quite right and im sure if it was rightly purpose built it should take into account most cases !

Agreed Kung and i think its a good idea in principle.....

 

[kung]

Just checking when was this Rogue Traders on and what channel ?
Thanks !

 

[DPG]

It was Watchdog - about an hour ago. Daz

 

[SBTEAM]

You dont have to be with the niceic,you could choose many others,im with elecsa,only took him to a cu change,once they see you know your stuff thats it,the niceic are not helpful and need to realise some people need a foot on the ladder,this is why i went to elecsa,perhaps you could do a cu change any other part p notifiable works for friends/neighbours or family for a discounted rate to get up and running.you can tell labc before job commences and then once you get registered yourself dont need to speak to them anymore.

I'M sorry but i disagree with the NICEIC are not helpful, i'm in the NIC and the ECA (the ECA own ELECSA)
and not only find the NICEIC very helpful but also help me win alot of work. For example when the part P
came out, not once have i been asked if i was part P, but asked if i was NIC instead, as the consumer knows of the NICEIC alot more than any of the others, hence members of the others being on a back foot straight away having to explain they are Part P but not NICEIC.
It makes me laugh because the niceic is no harder to be a member as elecsa or napit and is the same price for domestic installer, dont get me wrong i wish it was harder as it would have even more prestige about it.
And as the other guy says about catch 22, its easy like robsparky says do a cu for a friend/family test it correctly with the correct paper work, then put an outside socket at your own house as a second job makin sure both jobs are done to the current bs7671 and heypresto you could be signed up with the NICEIC lol.

 

[trev]

I'M sorry but i disagree with the NICEIC are not helpful, i'm in the NIC and the ECA (the ECA own ELECSA)
and not only find the NICEIC very helpful but also help me win alot of work. For example when the part P
came out, not once have i been asked if i was part P, but asked if i was NIC instead, as the consumer knows of the NICEIC alot more than any of the others, hence members of the others being on a back foot straight away having to explain they are Part P but not NICEIC.
It makes me laugh because the niceic is no harder to be a member as elecsa or napit and is the same price for domestic installer, dont get me wrong i wish it was harder as it would have even more prestige about it.
And as the other guy says about catch 22, its easy like robsparky says do a cu for a friend/family test it correctly with the correct paper work, then put an outside socket at your own house as a second job makin sure both jobs are done to the current bs7671 and heypresto you could be signed up with the NICEIC lol.

It still costs an arm and a leg to get it past LABC then you have the NIC fees so that CU change could end up costing the thick end of £800 because LABC where I am are very very strict and NIC say they want it certified legally when they come to see it so I can't see any short cuts. Sorry if I sound all whiny and poor me but I'm struggling to see how I can do this

 

[kung]

It was Watchdog - about an hour ago. Daz

Thanks buddy will watch it on demand after dirty tricks !

 

[trev]

Meanwhile old Tommy the guy at the pub who "knows what he's doing"....

 

[robsparky1975]

SB your right that the niceic are more well known.every firm ive ever worked for have been with them,the trouble is that when someone wants to start up on there own they make it difficult as in you have to be trading for 12 months and show them work,so i can understand where the catch 22 comes from.For me to get on a scheme elecsa was a means to an end,i needed a scheme and after 1 month of self employment was signed up with elecsa,so i know how trev1 feels,frustrated probably,and if i was trev1 i would give niceic or elecsa a call see how they can help get signed up.

 

[SBTEAM]

Meanwhile old Tommy the guy at the pub who "knows what he's doing"....

I know where your coming from Trev1 and unfortunatly the Part P reg has not stoped cowboys/rouge traders because we have to charge a bit more now
and if the electrical system aint up to regs, an extra socket in a kitchen could
turn out to be gas and water bond and an rcd/cu being fitted, so mr Smith
gets his brother who know electrics to do it and make us look bad for trying to rip them of.
And i promise TREV1 save up and get registed it will bring you work in and be
worth it in the end even borrow the money and pay it back from the first job,
theres always a solution mate.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It still costs an arm and a leg to get it past LABC then you have the NIC fees so that CU change could end up costing the thick end of £800 because LABC where I am are very very strict and NIC say they want it certified legally when they come to see it so I can't see any short cuts. Sorry if I sound all whiny and poor me but I'm struggling to see how I can do this

No trev because what you can do is do the board change (or any other notifyable work) for the assessment then when the part p provider inspector comes to look at the work/install and then if he ok`s it and you are invited onto the scheme....you just notify that work through them therby cutting out the LABC altogether......save your wallet that will......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No trev because what you can do is do the board change (or any other notifyable work) for the assessment then when the part p provider inspector comes to look at the work/install and then if he ok`s it and you are invited onto the scheme....you just notify that work through them therby cutting out the LABC altogether......save your wallet that will......

Well ok....elecs see it like that so i may have to eat some humble pie here...lol....but i dont see why they wouldn`t accept that. If not then its a poor do now isn`t it....

 

[DaveyD]

if the electrical system aint up to regs ... mr Smith
gets his brother who know electrics to do it and make us look bad for trying to rip them of.

Exactly!

 

[SBTEAM]

SB your right that the niceic are more well known.every firm ive ever worked for have been with them,the trouble is that when someone wants to start up on there own they make it difficult as in you have to be trading for 12 months and show them work,so i can understand where the catch 22 comes from.For me to get on a scheme elecsa was a means to an end,i needed a scheme and after 1 month of self employment was signed up with elecsa,so i know how trev1 feels,frustrated probably,and if i was trev1 i would give niceic or elecsa a call see how they can help get signed up.

I do understand it can be hard to start up and could argue till i'm blue in the
face about the benifits of being in the NICEIC.
Unfortunatley throughout the trade elecsa is seemed to be the underdog and
for electricians that aint good inof to get in the nic, now i know saying that
aint going to make me popular but it's the thoughts of alot of sparky's i'm
affraid.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Exactly!

Theres a lot of folk about though who think there getting a bargain when someone who "who knew electrics" comes round....thing is though there so ignorant of just about everything were bound by....safe zones, disconnection times, cable sizes, correct termination etc...the list goes on .....my boss and i see examples of this crap nearly every day and as money gets tighter....i am sure we will all be seeing a lot more of it...........