Is this JB adequate for the design and use.

ipf · Dec 7, 2022

mainline said:
Obviously not to some, as there are still probably 100s fitted incorrectly.

I'd say that's probably in the hundreds of thousands.
But well into the millions done correctly.
I don't presume the majority of workers are to blame. I Know we see the tip of the iceberg of bad installs on here but very, very few of the decent installations carried out are brought to light.

mainline said:
I would rather be experienced than qualified.

I've a preference for both.

mainline · Dec 8, 2022

ipf said:
I've a preference for both.

It was in relation to having a choice between Qualified or Experience.

My preference would be, if given the option and I could afford it, would be not to have to work at all

mainline · Dec 8, 2022

DPG said:
Where's the OP gone anyway?

Brings to mind that scene from the parody Airplane film.

Mike Johnson · Dec 9, 2022

mainline said:
My question was in using them without an enclosure at all.

Also, I think the enclosure would have to be stamped MF if used as BS 5733 Maintenance Free box.

Do they have to be stamped MF or just reach the criteria, certainly the Wago box's are not stamped, but do reach the standard, but then are they meant to be maintenance free, the lighting junction box's for downlighter's in a ceiling for instance can be pulled down to change a downlighter and none of the one's I have available are stamped MF.

Seems it was added at the last amendment to 526.3.

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

loz2754 · Dec 9, 2022

Only certain Wago boxes are MF, and are stamped as such.

mainline · Dec 9, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Do they have to be stamped MF or just reach the criteria, certainly the Wago box's are not stamped, but do reach the standard, but then are they meant to be maintenance free, the lighting junction box's for downlighter's in a ceiling for instance can be pulled down to change a downlighter and none of the one's I have available are stamped MF.

Seems it was added at the last amendment to 526.3.

526.3 Every connection shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance except for the following:
(i) A joint designed to be buried in the ground
(ii) A compound-filled or encapsulated joint
(iii) A connection between a cold tail and the heating element as in ceiling heating, floor heating or a trace heating system
(iv) A joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or appropriate compression tool
(v) Joints or connections made in equipment by the manufacturer of the product and not intended to be inspected or maintained
(vi) Equipment complying with BS 5733 for maintenance-free accessory and marked with the symbol and installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions.

It may be worth having a look on the Wago site, To be compliant when fitting MF Wago It's not just a case of chucking the connections inside and snapping the lid shut, you have to follow the manufacture's instructions including doing the calcs.

DPG · Dec 9, 2022

mainline said:
It may be worth having a look on the Wago site, To be compliant when fitting MF Wago It's not just a case of chucking the connections inside and snapping the lid shut, you have to follow the manufacture's instructions including doing the calcs.

And the cable tie

mainline · Dec 9, 2022

DPG said:
And the cable tie

There was also a thing about using the proper mount, instead of whacking a screw through it, if I remember correctly.

Cheaper just to crimp and put in a used chewing gum container with some ties

nicebutdim · Dec 9, 2022

DPG said:
And the cable tie

It's a sad state of affairs when one piddly little cable tie makes the difference between a box being considered maintenance free or not.

brianmoooore · Dec 9, 2022

Don't dis the cable tie. They make all the difference between my car being roadworthy and not.

nicebutdim · Dec 9, 2022

brianmoooore said:
Don't dis the cable tie. They make all the difference between my car being roadworthy and not.

Not so long ago the same was often said about newspaper and isopon.

mainline · Dec 9, 2022

nicebutdim said:
Not so long ago the same was often said about newspaper and isopon.

I don't think many decent testers would fall for that these days, or do they ?

nicebutdim · Dec 9, 2022

mainline said:
I don't think many testers fall for that these days, or do they ?

They never did at the government test centres we have in NI, but many unwitting buyers were not so fortunate.

SparkySy · Dec 9, 2022

MF connections have their place but I only tend to use them as a last resort and still prefer any joint to be accessible if possible, at an accessory or outlet is my preferred method. Spent too many hours trying to locate faults on hidden joints!

A cable tie is currently holding my gear linkage together and has been for around 250miles as its in such an inaccessible position I couldn't get in it fix it properly, I could just get one hand to the damn thing and a tie. Managed to get it round the linkage and do it up one handed with a lot of cursing and swearing!
Sy

Mike Johnson · Dec 9, 2022

nicebutdim said:
It's a sad state of affairs when one piddly little cable tie makes the difference between a box being considered maintenance free or not.

Well I can't open a Wago box without a screwdriver inserted under the lid and levering the thing open, the lid clips are certainly tough.

nicebutdim · Dec 9, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Well I can't open a Wago box without a screwdriver inserted under the lid and levering the thing open, the lid clips are certainly tough.

You can squeeze the front and open them, but correctly closed boxes won't open unintentionally. I was getting at the fact that a robust and secure box is only considered maintenance free when secured with something little stronger than cobweb.

I get that some distinction must be drawn, but all too often such distinctions within BS7671 seem quite arbitrary.

Mike Johnson · Dec 10, 2022

Arthritic hands means I can't squeeze anything with any pressure let alone a Wago box, but I was talking about the lighting downlight box's Like the pic below, not the bigger ones which may open with a good squeeze, but as said previously, the manufactures instruction say secure with a cable tie, a**e covering IMO.

loz2754 · Dec 10, 2022

The Wago light boxes are not MF.
Although they don't need to be MF when they're used for downlight connections, because they are accessible by means of the hole in the ceiling in most cases.

Mike Johnson · Dec 10, 2022

Quite true, but the only reason is because they are not marked as such, they do meet all the criteria to be MF.

mainline · Dec 10, 2022

Mike Johnson said:
Quite true, but the only reason is because they are not marked as such, they do meet all the criteria to be MF.

For one, they are moulded differently so that the connectors slide in to ensure that the levers' can't open.
So no, they don't fit the criteria.

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