UK Can I ask for some career advice

[Mike Johnson]

Not at all sure, but working for free may be breaking some tax or employment law on behalf of who you are working for/with, perhaps it even comes under slave trade legislation, additionally if your sudo employer buys your lunch or breakfast you are receiving benefit in kind.

 

[Paris2]

Ok so I’m going to look in to the C&G 2365.
Is this going to be worth my time/effort however (and money)?
I’m getting the impression it could be a doomed venture from the start.

 

[derek]

It will only be a doomed venture if you don't follow through, either because you are not financially prepared to take a reduction in income while you learn or because you don't put the effort in to make the career change. It isn't going to be easy and no one is going to come knocking on your door once you pass the c&g2365. I suppose you need to do your research and compare your current earnings and situation with what you could earn in around 5 years time, but don't believe the sales pitch from the training providers that all electricians are on £50k plus a year. Just look on CV library and other job boards to see what the annual wages in your area are. The hourly rates are typically for subcontractors and won't include holiday pay, pension, tools and company van, so that all needs to be factored into your calculations.

 

[MattBaigent]

I did my 2365 level 2 at tradeskills4u in Crawley, I planned to do my level 3 soon but with the covid situation that has been out in the back burner.

All I can say is that the course is amazing, they are all amazing instructors there and really help you get an understanding of the role.

obviously, the hands on skills they teach you is very basic as you can imagine only have a few weeks to get you up to the standard knowledge wise. But the real learning is when you leave and work for someone. I was lucky that I actually had a lot of electrical work that needed doing at my own home so gained a little more experience there but I am still way off feeling comfortable enough to do a large job for a paying customer.

 

[Paris2]

Thank you Derek, that’s all very helpful.
I’ll do some more research and make sure I know what to expect.
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I did my 2365 level 2 at tradeskills4u in Crawley, I planned to do my level 3 soon but with the covid situation that has been out in the back burner.

All I can say is that the course is amazing, they are all amazing instructors there and really help you get an understanding of the role.

obviously, the hands on skills they teach you is very basic as you can imagine only have a few weeks to get you up to the standard knowledge wise. But the real learning is when you leave and work for someone. I was lucky that I actually had a lot of electrical work that needed doing at my own home so gained a little more experience there but I am still way off feeling comfortable enough to do a large job for a paying customer.

Did you have prior experience before starting the level 2?
Do you have any plans or prospects for once level 3 is complete?

 

[MattBaigent]

Thank you Derek, that’s all very helpful.
I’ll do some more research and make sure I know what to expect.
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Did you have prior experience before starting the level 2?
Do you have any plans or prospects for once level 3 is complete?

I have been a data engineer for about 2 years and that didn’t help at all for any of the theory parts of the work, the practical however was similar. For example, installing the containment, running cables within containment and making your work neat (nice even bends, clips same distance apart and the same way round etc.

I initially planned on working for an electrician for a few months before doing my level 3 but I have found it hard to get the work with only a level 2 so I will be doing my level 3 right away and that will make me more employable. I have even offered my services for free to some people and they did not seem interested. Whether they assumed I don’t have a clue about the job and would be more of a hindrance. ?‍

 

[davesparks]

A lot of us dont want people who volunteer to work for free because that just means a lot of extra hassle for us.
Volunteers are a pain as you have no control over them, you can't set their start or finish times, they can turn up or not as they feel like, they can be a grey area for insurance.

Plus they just take up your time when you are trying to get a job done with no real chance of getting something in return. If you take on an apprentice then as they get better over the years you start to make money on them, a volunteer for a few months just weighs you down.

 

[JAWS]

I have been a data engineer for about 2 years and that didn’t help at all for any of the theory parts of the work, the practical however was similar. For example, installing the containment, running cables within containment and making your work neat (nice even bends, clips same distance apart and the same way round etc.

I initially planned on working for an electrician for a few months before doing my level 3 but I have found it hard to get the work with only a level 2 so I will be doing my level 3 right away and that will make me more employable. I have even offered my services for free to some people and they did not seem interested. Whether they assumed I don’t have a clue about the job and would be more of a hindrance. ?‍

I agree I think its more of a hindrance. Luckily enough I do have a trade to fall back on which pays well but picking up a trowel again I will be totally gutted.

 

[MattBaigent]

A lot of us dont want people who volunteer to work for free because that just means a lot of extra hassle for us.
Volunteers are a pain as you have no control over them, you can't set their start or finish times, they can turn up or not as they feel like, they can be a grey area for insurance.

Plus they just take up your time when you are trying to get a job done with no real chance of getting something in return. If you take on an apprentice then as they get better over the years you start to make money on them, a volunteer for a few months just weighs you down.

yeah, I guess that makes sense. how would you suggest someone trying to get into the industry but an apprenticeship is not an option? I'm going to just do my level 3 and hope that people will be more willing to have me work for them?

 

[davesparks]

how would you suggest someone trying to get into the industry but an apprenticeship is not an option?

I know this is going to sound harsh but I would suggest picking another industry to get in to.
Electrical installation is a technical and practical job which requires both knowledge and experience.

You can gain all of the knowledge in the world about the theory and how a new modern installation works and how things are installed today, but that won't help you one bit when you've got to do a job in the real world where a 20 year old installation needs altering.

A formal apprenticeship isn't the only way to become a good electrician, but you do need a good few years of working with experienced electrcians.

 

[JAWS]

I know this is going to sound harsh but I would suggest picking another industry to get in to.
Electrical installation is a technical and practical job which requires both knowledge and experience.

You can gain all of the knowledge in the world about the theory and how a new modern installation works and how things are installed today, but that won't help you one bit when you've got to do a job in the real world where a 20 year old installation needs altering.

A formal apprenticeship isn't the only way to become a good electrician, but you do need a good few years of working with experienced electrcians.

But that's not saying it cannot be done as proven with many forum members who've made a great success within the industry with no prior experience working years along side other electricans.

 

[Zerax]

Plus they just take up your time when you are trying to get a job done with no real chance of getting something in return. If you take on an apprentice then as they get better over the years you start to make money on them, a volunteer for a few months just weighs you down.

You must have had a bad experience in the past to paint so many people in such a bad light as that... In my experience, it all depends on the individual... it's difficult to know if someone will be a help or a hindrance.

I've worked with some guys who, on paper will be useless, but you show 'em once how to do something and they get it... Brilliant !! From Day 1 they save me time. Then there are others who have all sorts of qualifications, certificates for this, certificates for that etc.... and they'll a waste of time !

A friend of mine who runs a small business (unrelated to electrical) is mega busy with work right now... and was offered the help of someone from a totally unrelated background. He was thinking like you... more hindrance than help... but they were amazing !! Took to the work from the off... he wishes he could get another 2 like that !!
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...how would you suggest someone trying to get into the industry but an apprenticeship is not an option?

Unfortunately, the electrical industry entry is geared towards an apprenticeship, which in turn is geared towards you being a snotty nosed teenager, who knows nothing and still lives at home. As has been said already... it's not impossible to get into it later, just alot harder.

You have to have perseverance and it helps if you know the right people... to give you that opportunity.

 

[davesparks]

You must have had a bad experience in the past to paint so many people in such a bad light as that... In my experience, it all depends on the individual... it's difficult to know if someone will be a help or a hindrance.

Yes I have made the mistake of letting 3 of these career change cowboys work with me, none of them were any good.

One of them didn't even know the difference between an HSS drill and a masonry bit! I learned that from my grandfather before I was 10.

 

[MattBaigent]

Yes I have made the mistake of letting 3 of these career change cowboys work with me, none of them were any good.

One of them didn't even know the difference between an HSS drill and a masonry bit! I learned that from my grandfather before I was 10.

Unfortunately there are people out there like that so I will just have to prove myself.

A bloke that was on my course had never touched a drill before. Any type of practical work for him was just dangerous and unfortunately he completed his course and is now potentially doing work for people.

On my first day doing data I was working with a guy that didn’t even know how to work a ratchet screwdriver or what and SDS drill is and he had been in the industry for a few years already so I’ve no idea how he managed to get anywhere.

 

[Zerax]

One of them didn't even know the difference between an HSS drill and a masonry bit! I learned that from my grandfather before I was 10.

Crikey... you were a late starter then ?

 

[Paris2]

Thanks for all the input.
I’ll be looking more in to the course and contact my local colleges to see what they offer, hopefully I can fit it all around my current work.

One last question for now. Is the 2365 the best way to start learning and working.
Comparing the course to the domestic installer course, there seems to be quite a few ‘qualifications’ gained from the domestic installer, are these all requirements to get out working or is the 2365 enough on its own?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

You have looked at Morris services, I did my 18th and 2391 with James at Morris services. Decent guy who won't fleece you or tell you a pile of crap. Give him a call and ask him your questions.

 

[7029 dave]

We all have our own personal journeys, how we began/started in this industry.
I was 15 (not snotty nosed) living at home obviously with my parents.
My dad's friend had an electrical shop selling/repairing appliances etc.
Also a contracting side,I started as Saturday boy and school holidays.
That was 41years ago, omg time has passed quickly.

 

[JAWS]

Thanks for all the input.
I’ll be looking more in to the course and contact my local colleges to see what they offer, hopefully I can fit it all around my current work.

One last question for now. Is the 2365 the best way to start learning and working.
Comparing the course to the domestic installer course, there seems to be quite a few ‘qualifications’ gained from the domestic installer, are these all requirements to get out working or is the 2365 enough on its own?

On a Domestic Installer course that's start with this one Domestic Electrician Course (Domestic Installer Course) - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/courses/domestic-installer-course.

The C&G 2393 is not really a qualification that carries any weight its just understanding & reading through this http://www.-----------.co.uk/PartP/PartP-England.pdf

The 4141-01 more or less the same where it doesnt carry any weight. You'll receive this certificate after attending their workshop for 5 days

The 2392 is a level 2 testing qualification, although the qualification itself doesnt carry any weight it will be a great benefit for those to improve their testing skills or those want to brush up before going for the 2391 course. ( The 2392 looks good)

The 2382 is the latest 18th regs exam, this does carry weight as you'll need this.

So in theory most people who take this course will go on to work from themselves and join a CPC scheme where they will require you to have passed the latest regs exam the 18th edition, you will then be assessed on site where you'll be given tasks to fulfil to which you either pass or fail.

So to put it simply from an employers point they will not recognise these as relevant qualifications or the 18th edition just on its own.

Going on to the level 2 and level 3 2365, these are must on your journey to become an industry recognised electrican along with the AM2 & finally NVQ. (Gold Card)
Employers will look at this qualification as the relevant qualifications to employ you as a skilled worker.

As you've asked before regarding employment with the 2365 level 2 and level 3 this will carry some weight because as an employer they will see you're working towards your NVQ & may offer you an improver position.


Many people who do their part-time level 2 & level 3 2365 will be applying for many mates positions whist studying.

End of the day whatever you decide I would recommend starting the level 2. On ours we had to do 25 Saturdays that's 5 weeks of practical compared to 1 week practical on a DI course also you'll learn to make off different cable types, steel conduit, trunking making different sets, using stocks & Dies, etc something you wont learn on the DI course.

Also there's around 16 exams throughout the whole of the level 2 and 3 from online mock exams to written exam to practical exams.

And finally many people do go on a Domestic installer course, start up their own business & make a great success of it its all down that individual so dont think I am trying to put you off I'm not, its down to you what journey you want to take.

PS.. Just wanted to add on your level 2 2365 you will learn how to test initial verification on an install & when you move to level 3 2365 you'll go on to fault finding