Client refusing spd

[Jefferson steelflex]

Got a customer refusing to pay additional for an spd, its in luton which i believe is known for lightning strikes .
Customer just wants me to install new standard bg board.
Normally, i wouldn't make a fuss, but because its in a lightning zone, im thinking if its mandatory. Or could i put it down as a departure.

 

[DPG]

Put it in writing and get the client to sign it maybe. You can only do so much, ie. advise them.

 

[Vortigern]

Did you do the RA as per regs? If so then you cannot force SPD on a customer, just note the refusal on the EIC.

 

[Jefferson steelflex]

Did you do the RA as per regs? If so then you cannot force SPD on a customer, just note the refusal on the EIC.

I didn't do the calculations, so technically no. But I know he lives near a substation, he's in the density zone as demonstrated in bs7671, plus he lives near the airport where a lightning strike recently happened. My judgment tells me i should but can't really enforce it. Its a pme system.
In all fairness even if I did a risk assessment hel Probably refuse.
Just gonna put it down as a departure and refusal.

 

[goasis]

As an aside, how does anyone actually do the equation from 7671 when there are factors in it that it's unlikely you'll be able to know accurately? I can't see the point of it might as well have made fitting them mandatory and the cost is just part of the overall cost of the cu a far as the customer is concerned

 

[Jefferson steelflex]

As an aside, how does anyone actually do the equation from 7671 when there are factors in it that it's unlikely you'll be able to know accurately? I can't see the point of it might as well have made fitting them mandatory and the cost is just part of the overall cost of the cu a far as the customer is concerned

Yeah its not really clear whether its mandatory or not.

 

[Pete999]

Remember BS 7671 is NOT a mandatory document.

 

[goasis]

Remember BS 7671 is NOT a mandatory document.

I know, but you've got to have a good reason to depart from it. My point in this case (& I am away without my book) is that the method that it gives in order to assess whether or not an sdp is required, needs information which I don't know how you would obtain, ( in most cases) therefore rendering the equation pointless, therefore why bother with it, just include fitting spd s as a standard requirement.
Although I personally can't see the point of them in the majority of cases, I don't think I know of anyone who has suffered damaged property as a result of overvoltage. But as the price and availability of SPD s has improved, why worry, just fit them.

 

[Jefferson steelflex]

I know, but you've got to have a good reason to depart from it. My point in this case (& I am away without my book) is that the method that it gives in order to assess whether or not an sdp is required, needs information which I don't know how you would obtain, ( in most cases) therefore rendering the equation pointless, therefore why bother with it, just include fitting spd s as a standard requirement.
Although I personally can't see the point of them in the majority of cases, I don't think I know of anyone who has suffered damaged property as a result of overvoltage. But as the price and availability of SPD s has improved, why worry, just fit them.

It depends on what type of spd, if a house has a lot of electronics, leds etc then type 2 spd may offer that protection from sharp overvoltages.
I tend to just do a quick research on the area, like nearest substation, type of supply, and whether its prone to lightning strikes. Based on that i make a quick judgement, haven't got time to faff around with the equations, more suitable for a dedicated designer.

 

[SJD]

I just include one in any estimate, adds approx £30 (Fusebox brand usually) and don't give the customer a choice, it is not itemised out so it never gets queried. Either they go ahead or find someone else.

 

[Julie.]

Is this a residential property?

If it is, there is absolutely no requirement to do an assessment, or install spd in lieu of an assessment.

For a single property it is only where the cost of impact outweighs the cost of the protection would such protection be necessary.

If the customer believes the potential impact does not justify the cost of spd he is 100% correct.

It isn't an exception to the regs, it is completely in compliance with the regs.

 

[pc1966]

Ah yes, the customer is always tight.

Oh, you said right? Still, it is them who pays their money and takes their chances.

 

[catdog1121]

Is this a residential property?

If it is, there is absolutely no requirement to do an assessment, or install spd in lieu of an assessment.

For a single property it is only where the cost of impact outweighs the cost of the protection would such protection be necessary.

If the customer believes the potential impact does not justify the cost of spd he is 100% correct.

It isn't an exception to the regs, it is completely in compliance with the regs.

Surely the cost of the protection is only about £70 or under now, a lightning strike can destroy the consumer unit for a start let alone TV, smart phone, computer etc etc. How can you say the cost of protection outweighs the cost of impact?

The way I get round it when a customer asks what an SPD is and do I need it I give them two options...

1. You can pay the £70 for the SPD which experts have decided is worth the protection and you can have some piece of mind that you have at least some protection from lightening strikes.

2. I can do a very complicated risk assessment that will often still dictate you need the SPD, to carry out this risk assessment I charge £90.

Would you like choice 1 or choice 2?

Any customer who would moan that much about fitting an SPD frankly I dont want as a customer, go find some cowboy to do your electrics.

 

[Julie.]

Surely the cost of the protection is only about £70 or under now, a lightning strike can destroy the consumer unit for a start let alone TV, smart phone, computer etc etc. How can you say the cost of protection outweighs the cost of impact?

The way I get round it when a customer asks what an SPD is and do I need it I give them two options...

1. You can pay the £70 for the SPD which experts have decided is worth the protection and you can have some piece of mind that you have at least some protection from lightening strikes.

2. I can do a very complicated risk assessment that will often still dictate you need the SPD, to carry out this risk assessment I charge £90.

Would you like choice 1 or choice 2?

Any customer who would moan that much about fitting an SPD frankly I dont want as a customer, go find some cowboy to do your electrics.

I am not making any judgement on the validity of the decision, I am merely pointing out what is specified by the regulations.

The idea that no spd is wrong, is not what is stated in the regulations, the regulations are clear in this area.

I also find it somewhat disingenuous to suggest that someone following the regulations would therefore be a cowboy!

 

[suffolkspark]

I wouldn't even give a customer the option. They all get full type A rcbo board and an spd everytime. No dual rcd crap in 2021

Incidentally are the BG boards now fitted with type A 100A rcds? (Obv if incoming fuse is less the rating doesn't matter)

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Surely the cost of the protection is only about £70 or under now, a lightning strike can destroy the consumer unit for a start let alone TV, smart phone, computer etc etc. How can you say the cost of protection outweighs the cost of impact?

The way I get round it when a customer asks what an SPD is and do I need it I give them two options...

1. You can pay the £70 for the SPD which experts have decided is worth the protection and you can have some piece of mind that you have at least some protection from lightening strikes.

2. I can do a very complicated risk assessment that will often still dictate you need the SPD, to carry out this risk assessment I charge £90.

Would you like choice 1 or choice 2?

Any customer who would moan that much about fitting an SPD frankly I dont want as a customer, go find some cowboy to do your electrics.

£70 may be nothing to you, but to many it is a significant amount of money, often more than a day's wages. In the vast majority of cases, an SPD is insurance against something that is highly unlikely to happen.

Tradespersons who force their clients to buy unnecessary components because they don't know the regulations could themselves be perceived as cowboys.

 

[baldelectrician]

I include the SPD in the quote and give the client the option to remove it, mainly they keep it in

I also do NOT do a calculation on SPD's as there are too many variables, I just recommend it on every consumer unit change- it is up to the client then

If there is a SPD problem afterwards then the client is liable as they have went against my professional advice

 

[Jefferson steelflex]

£70 may be nothing to you, but to many it is a significant amount of money, often more than a day's wages. In the vast majority of cases, an SPD is insurance against something that is highly unlikely to happen.

Tradespersons who force their clients to buy unnecessary components because they don't know the regulations could themselves be perceived as cowboys.

Yeah the difference between a non spd board and an spd board, is literally £70-£100 difference.
Due to the variables already in the area, i wasn't sure whether its mandatory. I don't want a call saying "i should have fitted an spd" due to xyz, if i customer refuses it, im gonna make sure its a departure and refusal.
Anything that could come back at us, even the tiny possibility, keep our asses covered.

 

[Julie.]

Yeah the difference between a non spd board and an spd board, is literally £70-£100 difference.
Due to the variables already in the area, i wasn't sure whether its mandatory. I don't want a call saying "i should have fitted an spd" due to xyz, if i customer refuses it, im gonna make sure its a departure and refusal.
Anything that could come back at us, even the tiny possibility, keep our asses covered.

What's the departure for? Something else?

 

[Strima]

On your certificate note that it was recommended by you to fit an SPD but the client declined.