Electric meter advice

[Stevejd58]

To be clear I have no intention of messing with this, I just need to pick a few brains on the following.

British gas are sending me this on a regular basis, a ploy I think to get me to install a smart meter which i don't want.

"The radio service that supports your meter is being switched off. So we need to replace your electricity meter to make sure it continues to work after June 2025.
Your current meter switches rates using a radio signal, helping your meter change between day and night rates. This is often used by people who have electric storage systems, panel heaters or immersion heaters in water tanks – as some of these typically charge up overnight."

My current meter is an AMPY Reporter 5184A which, if I have read the manual correctly Ampy 5184A manual doesn't have a radio connection.
Have I got this right and its a BG trick to get me to swap to a smart meter?

 

[littlespark]

Older properties may have a meter and a separate teleswitch, which does need the radio signal.

Is there any other big black box near the meter?

Can you send a photo?

 

[Stevejd58]

Older properties may have a meter and a separate teleswitch, which does need the radio signal.

Is there any other big black box near the meter?

Can you send a photo?

No other boxes bar the main fuse

 

[littlespark]

Ok. Do you actually have a 2 rate tariff on your bill?

Is there another box at the consumer unit?

 

[Stevejd58]

Ok. Do you actually have a 2 rate tariff on your bill?

Is there another box at the consumer unit?

dual rate (economy 7) and no other box at consumer unit

 

[littlespark]

Ok… it’s just there’s only one set of tails going from this meter into the house… it needs to split somewhere to power the overnight storage heaters just at night.

 

[Stevejd58]

Ok… it’s just there’s only one set of tails going from this meter into the house… it needs to split somewhere to power the overnight storage heaters just at night.

Hi
economy 7 was pretty much a default install in the old Eastern Electricity board days, previous owners never took it out. In this house it meant the fridge freezer ran cheaper, never been any storage heaters as its been gas heated since the 60s.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Have I got this right and its a BG trick to get me to swap to a smart meter?

I think you are right that the Ampy meter does not have a time code receiver on board. From another post I saw it appears to have a real time clock (which by now is probably wrong!). It is a dual tariff meter and has a contactor on board to switch an off peak CU - clearly no longer connected.

I hope the house has been on a single tariff since the E7 was abandoned, so presumably you are just being charged a normal single rate.

One issue is that the meter will be out of its certification period after 20 years, and I have read that in this circumstance your supplier now has a right to change the meter to a smart meter without your agreement. However if they have any dumb meters still available they might offer you one, or they may be willing to set up a smart meter in "dumb mode"? I think you would need to provide a justification of why you need a dumb meter, given the suppliers are charged with the job of rolling out smart.

 

[Stevejd58]

I think you are right that the Ampy meter does not have a time code receiver on board. From another post I saw it appears to have a real time clock (which by now is probably wrong!). It is a dual tariff meter and has a contactor on board to switch an off peak CU - clearly no longer connected.

I hope the house has been on a single tariff since the E7 was abandoned, so presumably you are just being charged a normal single rate.

One issue is that the meter will be out of its certification period after 20 years, and I have read that in this circumstance your supplier now has a right to change the meter to a smart meter without your agreement. However if they have any dumb meters still available they might offer you one, or they may be willing to set up a smart meter in "dumb mode"? I think you would need to provide a justification of why you need a dumb meter, given the suppliers are charged with the job of rolling out smart.

My bills don't state Economy 7 but I am being charged at 2 rates. the clock is out by 4 hours but still date correct
Meter was certified in Nov 05 so not quite out yet.
when you say "has a contactor on board to switch an off peak CU - clearly no longer connected" can you explain more please

 

[littlespark]

The contactor would switch in at a given time and allow power to flow into another set of tails to power just the overnight heating…. But you don’t have this other set of tails

 

[Stevejd58]

The contactor would switch in at a given time and allow power to flow into another set of tails to power just the overnight heating…. But you don’t have this other set of tails

So effectively i dont have to change my meter yet as its still in certification until next year (20yrs) but basically BG are using scare tactics around the RTS to get me on a smart meter to boost their numbers.
So it's a meter change inevitably but as it is under current rules, I don't have to accept a smart meter, it's either a dumb meter or a smart in dumb mode

 

[Avo Mk8]

when you say "has a contactor on board to switch an off peak CU - clearly no longer connected" can you explain more please

Thank you to littlespark for clarifying my mumbo jumbo.

Just to say that being on a dual tariff means you will typically pay more for electricity during the day, and a lot less for night time. To give an idea of the difference, it can work out that at least 40% of your total usage needs to be at night for it to be cheaper to be on a dual tariff. The fact your clock is 4 hours out makes the comparison more difficult, but you might find you could get lower bills on a single tariff. I gather there are on-line calculators to help work out which is best, so could be worth exploring.
PS to clarify - changing tariff does not mean the meter has to be changed.
And you're right, the time code broadcast switch-off is irrelevant for this meter

 

[MisterZ]

To be clear I have no intention of messing with this, I just need to pick a few brains on the following.

British gas are sending me this on a regular basis, a ploy I think to get me to install a smart meter which i don't want.

"The radio service that supports your meter is being switched off. So we need to replace your electricity meter to make sure it continues to work after June 2025.
Your current meter switches rates using a radio signal, helping your meter change between day and night rates. This is often used by people who have electric storage systems, panel heaters or immersion heaters in water tanks – as some of these typically charge up overnight."

My current meter is an AMPY Reporter 5184A which, if I have read the manual correctly Ampy 5184A manual doesn't have a radio connection.
Have I got this right and its a BG trick to get me to swap to a smart meter?

I'd like to jump in on this post if I may. I have a Mulitrate Single Phase Watt Hour Meter, Type 5196D, certified in August 2002. I also have a separate Radio Teleswitch series 3. I've received a barrage of emails from Octopus, stating that I need to have this removed and replaced with a smart meter by June 2025. I don't have storage heaters, nor need it for the hot water as this all runs off an oil boiler. I currently submit day and night readings but I am on a single rate tariff. Does this meter change need to happen if the meter gives a day, night and total reading? Just because the RTS is being switched off, why would this stop the meter from recording total units used?

 

[brianmoooore]

I have an Eon account with the same set up as above, and have replied stating that since it's a single rate tariff, the loss of the radio time signal will make meter reading simpler, since only one dial will move and I will stick with the current meter, thank you very much. No reply.
I also have a supply with Scottish Power who have contacted me twice to say that my meter has reached the end of its certification period and needs to be replaced. The meter's certification lasts until mid 2031, so I have contacted them twice asking why they are sending out emails containing blatant lies. No reply from them either, in spite of them promising to reply within 48 hours.

 

[brianmoooore]

PS to clarify - changing tariff does not mean the meter has to be changed.

This is correct. I contacted Scottish Power six years ago to request an E7 to 24hr tariff change, and they insisted that the meter had to be replaced, and at my expense. I declined, and the resulting dispute is still going on to this day.
About three years ago I contacted Eon, requesting the same thing and getting the same reply, although this time the meter change was to be free. After no less than ten exchanges of emails, they admitted that the meter change wasn't required, and switched the account to a tariff where both readings on the meter were charged at the same single tariff rate.

 

[snowhead]

Mista-Z
As Brian has said, meter change not required.
I've got a dual rate meter and Octopus and before that Shell and before that Robin Hood Energy all used the combined reading for the total.

5196D has a Certification period of 25 yrs

My 2008 5254E has a certification period of 20yrs

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66aa06d549b9c0597fdb0846/electricity-meters-schedule-4-240730.pdf

 

[Simon47]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66aa06d549b9c0597fdb0846/electricity-meters-schedule-4-240730.pdf

Ooh, useful. Just looked mine up, and since it says "Property of Norweb" assume it is faily old. But with a 30 year certification, still got (if I assume the sticker saying "certified 6 00" means June 2000) another 5 1/2 years

Interesting to look down the list and see one meter certified for 45 years, while there are huge numbers only certified for 10 years. When you think how long it's taken to not fit everyone with a new smart meter, and it looks a lot like they are replacing meters that had 20 year, 25 year, or even longer lives with ones that have a 10 year life at best - how long before they just fit a socket for it to plug into and post out new meters for the customer to swap (he writes, only slightly tongue in cheek)

 

[freddo]

I seem to recall the last time I read my suppliers smart meter terms and conditions, it suggested the smart meters needed replacing every 5 years!

 

[MisterZ]

Mista-Z
As Brian has said, meter change not required.
I've got a dual rate meter and Octopus and before that Shell and before that Robin Hood Energy all used the combined reading for the total.

5196D has a Certification period of 25 yrs

My 2008 5254E has a certification period of 20yrs

https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/electricity-meters-schedule-4-240730-pdf.119658/

Thanks snowhead.

I was asked by Octopus to send pictures of my setup, which I sent over to them to see what they would come up with next. All I got back was that they confirmed that I have an RTS setup, and when would I like to book in for a smart meter upgrade!

I duly replied, stating that I have already informed them that the meter will continue to read total units used, without being reliant on RTS for heating or hot water, and that I will not be booking in for an 'upgrade'. They are relentless.

 

[Avo Mk8]

They are relentless.

They will be, and you can't blame just them, being under the cosh from the Government to meet smart meter installation targets, and being penalised if they're not met.

https://committees.parliament.uk/work/7705/update-on-the-rollout-of-smart-meters/

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmpubacc/1332/summary.html

 

[brianmoooore]

Any idea how much the cost is to the suppliers is for each meter not changed? I'm not interested in a 'smart meter' for any of my supplies, but an adequate financial incentive might persuade me.
(Just had another email from Scottish Power claiming their meter is out of certification. It's certified for the next six years.)

 

[snowhead]

(Just had another email from Scottish Power claiming their meter is out of certification. It's certified for the next six years.)

I think they must keep a spreadsheet for everyone, that haven't changed, with a list of excuses and try a different one each time.
I haven't had the out of Cal one yet.

 

[MisterZ]

Mista-Z
As Brian has said, meter change not required.
I've got a dual rate meter and Octopus and before that Shell and before that Robin Hood Energy all used the combined reading for the total.

5196D has a Certification period of 25 yrs

My 2008 5254E has a certification period of 20yrs

https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/electricity-meters-schedule-4-240730-pdf.119663/

So I've contacted several suppliers to see if they would accept a single, total reading, and they've all said no, it has to be day and night readings. Will the RTS switch off affect these readings? I expect the total reading to be fine but not sure about day and night.

 

[brianmoooore]

Simple. You still submit two readings, as now. The difference is that one will never change.

 

[MisterZ]

Simple. You still submit two readings, as now. The difference is that one will never change.

Simple. You still submit two readings, as now. The difference is that one will never change.

Sorry, not following. It's been a long week

 

[snowhead]

At the moment I supply Night and Day readings.
They are itemised and costed separately, at the same rate per Kw, but then totalled to give the final bill.
As Brian, on the assumtion that the meter will be permanently reading either Day or Night, depending when the radio signal drops off, 2 readings will still need to be submitted, to confirm that the inactive rate is not recording.

 

[MisterZ]

At the moment I supply Night and Day readings.
They are itemised and costed separately, at the same rate per Kw, but then totalled to give the final bill.
As Brian, on the assumtion that the meter will be permanently reading either Day or Night, depending when the radio signal drops off, 2 readings will still need to be submitted, to confirm that the inactive rate is not recording.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks.

At the moment I supply Night and Day readings.
They are itemised and costed separately, at the same rate per Kw, but then totalled to give the final bill.
As Brian, on the assumtion that the meter will be permanently reading either Day or Night, depending when the radio signal drops off, 2 readings will still need to be submitted, to confirm that the inactive rate is not recording.

At the moment I supply Night and Day readings.
They are itemised and costed separately, at the same rate per Kw, but then totalled to give the final bill.
As Brian, on the assumtion that the meter will be permanently reading either Day or Night, depending when the radio signal drops off, 2 readings will still need to be submitted, to confirm that the inactive rate is not recording.

 

[MisterZ]

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks.

So, Octopus have finally backed down. They told me again that my meter will be affected but, when I asked for specifics, they reverted back to talking about storage heaters and hot water being switched off. I reiterated that I use oil for my heating and hot water and they just said "OK, that's all fine then". They did go on to say that my meter certification expires in August 2027 so expect contact then, but a win for now.