Glass washing machine 3 phase 63a per phase

[2wireit]

good evening,

just looked at a job where a glass washing machine is to be installed in a factory.
3 phase crabree board already there. plenty of spare ways and only load on the ccu is power and lighting and alarm system.

job request from customer, need a commando socket adjacent to drain to plug machine in.

the way i would install would be, three phase board 63a 3 phase breaker.
16mm to a 63a mem switch fused isolator next to board. from there run a 16mm 5 core armoured clipped direct around 45m to commando socket.

another electrician has quoted and subsequently come in cheaper as said 4 core 16mm.
and no mention of a 63a fused isolator?

advice chaps?

 

[telectrix]

why would you need a second fuse/breaker?

 

[2wireit]

telectrix, this is what i am asking. method of install please? if i am wrong correct me please. TIA

 

[2wireit]

Mainly do domestic / new build.

 

[Yozza19]

3 phase dB clipped swa right through to comando keep it simple

 

[The Ghost]

In your title it says 63a per phase, I thought WHAT! can't be. This is crazy even 20 odd amps per phase to just wash glasses! It's got to be cheaper to employ someone to do it at that draw surely. But then I installed one that was 17 ish amps per phase for a mobile bar that washes it's glasses at the base and the machine does a cycle for hundreds of glasses in a couple of hours so maybe not. Although the manufacturers insisted I should use 4mm² rather than the 2.5mm² my calcs suggested. So I suppose the other spark was going to run a 16mm² earth along with the four core or use the armour?

 

[2wireit]

i would run 5 core also? so why is other quote 4 core??

 

[telectrix]

63 A MCB in DB provides OCPD and isolation of circuit. Commando plug/ socket provides local isolation of appliance. K.I.S.S. as he said ^^^^^.

and as vorti says are you sure it's 63A per phase?

 

[2wireit]

voltigern, its a plastic cup washer and dryer / commercial. 63a per phase stated by machine supplier to me. not installed yet.

 

[Andy78]

i would run 5 core also? so why is other quote 4 core??

Why not 4 core ?

 

[telectrix]

i'd make sure of that rating before quoting. 63A /phase will run a machine big enough to wash the glass at |Trump Towers.

 

[2wireit]

its a huge machine apparently. and would you not need to run 5 core then? andy78?

 

[westward10]

Have you done some calculations and what is a commando socket.

 

[Andy78]

its a huge machine apparently. and would you not need to run 5 core then? andy78?

Dunno, what do your cable design calcs say about that ?

 

[westward10]

My advice, if you are asking these questions to a straight forward installation. Don't get involved.

 

[2wireit]

i would always run a separate cpc? rather than rely on the sea armour?

 

[2wireit]

i would always run a separate cpc? rather than rely on the swa armour?

 

[westward10]

How easy do you think terminating a four or five core swa cable into a 63A socket will be.

 

[2wireit]

My advice, if you are asking these questions to a straight forward installation. Don't get involved.

as stated above. not my bag. i will do it though. and i will do the job well. after advice not criticism. can i not ask advice on here? so instead of being a ----? why not advise..

 

[Strima]

How easy do you think terminating a four or five core swa cable into a 63A socket will be.

It's lots of fun, especially when I had to use 25mm due to volt drop, lots of cursing and skinned knuckles...

 

[Andy78]

as stated above. not my bag. i will do it though. and i will do the job well. after advice not criticism. can i not ask advice on here? so instead of being a ****? why not advise..

Honestly, from what you have said you have a very poor understanding of the job at hand, a simple job, which is why you are being asked so many questions.
Just provide as much info as possible and you will get as much help as possible. This is the internet and you can ask questions but you have no given right to receive the answers you expect to.

 

[The Ghost]

Damn thats a big mother! Sure it wont melt the plastic cups
Anyhow at 16mm² the armour should suffice as a CPC. So four core is a viable choice. There is a PDF on here somewhere with the steel equivalent to copper ratings. Is this clipped direct and horizontal run?

 

[Strima]

Depending on how the adeabatic works out, existing supply test results, Zdb etc, then I would probably go with a 4 core. Use the armour as CPC, install a TPN&E socket. The N may not be required for this machine but might be needed in the future.

 

[2wireit]

Honestly, from what you have said you have a very poor understanding of the job at hand, a simple job, which is why you are being asked so many questions.
Just provide as much info as possible and you will get as much help as possible. This is the internet and you can ask questions but you have no given right to receive the answers you expect to.

andy, as i have said, clipped direct 16mm. rather than rely on the SWA earth i would personally run 5 core? and neither to incorporate a switched fused isolator? all I'm asking

 

[westward10]

What type of 63A socket do you intend to fit and will you connect the swa direct to it.

 

[The Ghost]

Have you downloaded manufacturers installation instructions? Any help if you have???

 

[2wireit]

i haven't no. its easier to ask. but as i guessed on here its a waste of time. I'm extremely tired. earnt £1630, in 4 days and working tomorrow. but yes I'm a useless ---- yes yes. came on here for advice.

 

[The Ghost]

Steady on now, no need to get so despondent. It sounds from what you are saying it is a plan. And workable. So you have had a couple of comments but steady on now.

 

[Ib≤In≤Iz]

i haven't no. its easier to ask. but as i guessed on here its a waste of time. I'm extremely tired. earnt £1630, in 4 days and working tomorrow. but yes I'm a useless **** yes yes. came on here for advice.

And with that attitude your not going to get very far are you mate.

 

[2wireit]

its not my bag. i just want instructions on what to do. yes i am a spark 2330 qual 10 years ago. sorry i need to ask. but i do what i do. and earn well. new job comes up ill do it ask advice. anyone want to give??

 

[2wireit]

And with that attitude your not going to get very far are you mate.

haven't got attitude. don't see why people can't share information. we are here for a good time. not a long time.

 

[westward10]

i haven't no. its easier to ask. but as i guessed on here its a waste of time. I'm extremely tired. earnt £1630, in 4 days and working tomorrow. but yes I'm a useless **** yes yes. came on here for advice.

Grow a pair Joey.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I now will give my penny's worth .find out who's dishwasher it is then guessing that would be my advice .and try and stop from throwing you dummy out of the pram.

 

[The Ghost]

I think it is quite a jump from domestic/new build to go into commercial and do a 3 phase but in principle I cannot see why anyone should not do so. The tech department who does the machine should be able to advise. Is there any reason someone should not be helped or encouraged on such a jump really? It seems the basic calcs are done and yes there would appear to be a learning curve involved but are we not here to do that??? or no? Or am I missing something?

 

[ipf]

i haven't no. its easier to ask. but as i guessed on here its a waste of time. I'm extremely tired. earnt £1630, in 4 days and working tomorrow. but yes I'm a useless **** yes yes. came on here for advice.

Don't get your knickers in a twist.......go and count your dosh and go to bed.

 

[2wireit]

And with that attitude your not going to get very far are you mate.

haven't got attitude. don't see why people can't share information. we are here for a good time. not a long time.

I think it is quite a jump from domestic/new build to go into commercial and do a 3 phase but in principle I cannot see why anyone should not do so. The tech department who does the machine should be able to advise. Is there any reason someone should not be helped or encouraged on such a jump really? It seems the basic calcs are done and yes there would appear to be a learning curve involved but are we not here to do that??? or no? Or am I missing something?

yes i have done cable calcs to determine cable size. but unsure if a fused isolator was nessasary? it seems not? and my theory of running a separate cpc is also not nessasary??

 

[2wireit]

so straight off of a 63a three phase crabtree breaker to a commando socket?

 

[The Ghost]

Thats what @telectrix said and he's da man, trusted advisor! Post #8

 

[buzzlightyear]

so straight off of a 63a three phase crabtree breaker to a commando socket?

what size of cable ?answer on a post card .to top dog electrical forums .via father xmas north pole .the world

 

[AJshep]

Commando socket serves as local Isolation up to 32amp sockets
However,
Personally I'd come from the DB to a 125amp rotary Isolator then link with a bit of 25mm conduit and mount the plug underneath, or I'd get a interlink socket with a built in isolator.

The reason I'd go this route is because your struggle terminating an 16mm 4 core SWA straight into a 63 amp socket.
In my opinion 63amp rotary isolators are made to small as well.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Commando socket serves as local Isolation so it's fine.
However,
Personally I'd come from the DB to a 125amp rotary Isolator then link with a bit of 25mm conduit and mount the plug underneath, or I'd get a socket with a built in isolator.

The reason I'd go this route is because your struggle terminating an 16mm 4 core SWA straight into a 63 amp socket.
In my opinion 63amp rotary isolators are made to small as well

try 10mm cable.

 

[westward10]

Does your selected protective device satisfy fault protection requirements.

 

[The Ghost]

10mm cable.

Volt drop too high though on 45m. hence 16mm²?

 

[westward10]

The only thing I would consider if using the armour as a cpc would be external influences around a dishwasher. No matter how good you make the connection will it deteriorate from any of these influences.

 

[UKMeterman]

An interlinked socket is a good idea, yanking 63A out under load will give a bit of a flash and stuff up the contacts.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Phase Three Phase
Power 34.88kW / 63A
Length 45m
Core Size 10mm²
Voltage Drop 11.34volts

 

[Strima]

Phase Three Phase
Power 34.88kW / 63A
Length 45m
Core Size 10mm²
Voltage Drop 11.34volts

What’s the VD at the DB?

 

[Darkwood]

With all respect,reading through this thread is somewhat worrying, I understand the forum is based around advice and help but it is clear by self admission that the OP is out of his comfort zone and delving into a sector where he lacks experience, I do not appreciate the tone and backlash given when the OP was challenged on legitimate points like cable calcs etc, we as a forum are not here for step by step guide, if you want help then provide all the info requested and your installation design and calculations so we can confirm or correct them for you ....

On that note, thread closed, if the OP wishes to continue interacting on the forum then can we tone down the obvious attitude, been asked for your cable calcs is what we expect before we offer free advice to a qualified person.