Help with filling out EICR with economy 7

[JiMMySnoW]

Evening all,

I carried out an EICR on a property with economy 7.

I tested the main board like normal and only carried out the dead tests on the econemy 7 board. I have read the forum suggests about the live tests and taken notes for later tests with econemy 7. For now I am just going to put it as a Lim.

My question is in the box that asks how many sources do I put 2?

 

[davesparks]

Is your customer happy with you missing out essential tests?

You wrote down the number of sources of supply that there are. Assuming that there is only the public supply then the answer is one. If they also have another source such as PV or a backup generator then you record the appropriate number

 

[Andy78]

Evening all,

I carried out an EICR on a property with economy 7.

I tested the main board like normal and only carried out the dead tests on the econemy 7 board. I have read the forum suggests about the live tests and taken notes for later tests with econemy 7. For now I am just going to put it as a Lim.

My question is in the box that asks how many sources do I put 2?

A LIM is only really appropriate when the observation or test falls under the remit and description of the agreed limitations listed at the start of the report. This should be agreed with the customer before the inspection begins.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Thanks for the quick response. I told the customer that I cant do a live test on the Economy 7 board because there being no power. He said he was happy. He had the test done because his insurance stipulated it.

Now I know that its acceptable to link off the other board then I will do this and go back in case his insurance are not happy with me not doing this essential test :38:. I did consider this at the time but thought that it was defeating the purpose of testing the loop back as I was using the other incoming supply to loop back.

Because also at the time I didn't know that it was same supply. All knew was that economy 7 was cheaper electric that switched on at night.

Thanks again

 

[davesparks]

What do you mean by link off of the other board??
You use the alternative test method of putting a L-E link at the far end of the circuit and testing from the Incoming 24hr L and the outgoing side of the off peak board main switch with the ocpd closed for the circuit being tested. Apart from a short bit of tails it's exactly the same loop you are testing.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

What do you mean by link off of the other board??
You use the alternative test method of putting a L-E link at the far end of the circuit and testing from the Incoming 24hr L and the outgoing side of the off peak board main switch with the ocpd closed for the circuit being tested. Apart from a short bit of tails it's exactly the same loop you are testing.

OK, can you tell me where I stick each lead for the ZS test after I have the L - E at the far end of the circuit I am testing please. I want to tell you what I think you mean but scared of looking like an idiot haha

 

[davesparks]

OK, can you tell me where I stick each lead for the ZS test after I have the L - E at the far end of the circuit I am testing please. I want to tell you what I think you mean but scared of looking like an idiot haha

Don't worry about looking like an idiot, you did that in your first post.

I'm not convinced it's a good idea to advise you on carrying out live testing as you appear to be lacking in knowledge and may not realise the dangers which I would consider to be obvious

 

[JiMMySnoW]

OK, I dont lack the knowledge I just don't comprehend what you are advising as you are suggesting linking the L-E. As for the idiot thing you should would your neck in. :rifle:

 

[JiMMySnoW]

OK well i search older post and this has come up before and no one has answered it.

I am sure that if someone could answer clearly it would help others after me. I am off to bed now. If no-one comes back with an answer. I will find out and come back with it.

 

[spark 68]

What Dave was suggesting (I think), which is the way I have done it, is link the L-E at the far end of the (hopefully dead ) circuit and measure your Zs across the open time clock/contactor terminals, one of which will be a live feed, if you draw the circuit out you would see this works out electrically the same as measuring at the far end on a conventional circuit.

A search on here for "alternative RCD test" might give you some results, this is similar in that you can do a Hi Zs test across the open RCD giving more accurate results than the no trip test, we also did it this way in the past when a Hi test would trip 6A B type MCBs.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not all economy 7 or 10 have a time clock.
They are fed directly from the meter.
Technically they are a separate installation.
There are two methods for testing:
One is to wait until the board is live.
The other is to take a feed from the normal board to the Off peak board.
Another method is not to conduct live tests at all.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Not all economy 7 or 10 have a time clock.
They are fed directly from the meter.
Technically they are a separate installation.
There are two methods for testing:
One is to wait until the board is live.
The other is to take a feed from the normal board to the Off peak board.
Another method is not to conduct live tests at all.

Thank you.

I phoned the NICEIC. They said that I can do the follwing:

1) wait until it becomes live.
2 ) calculate the zs as per OSG section 10.3.6
3) phone the dno .

I said about linking over. They said they wouldn't recommend doing that for obvious safety reasons

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Occasionally, the NICEIC and myself do see eye to eye.

 

[Resu]

Perform R1+R2 tests, calculate Zs's using measured Ze from main DB, note on cert you have done this, job done. Am I missing something here? Only reason to link would be if RCD/RCBOs present on e7 board.

 

[davesparks]

OK, I dont lack the knowledge I just don't comprehend what you are advising as you are suggesting linking the L-E. As for the idiot thing you should would your neck in. :rifle:

Yes you do!
Search YouTube for the video by Chris kitcher where he demonstrates the alternative Zs test method. It has also been posted on here before.

You link L-E at the far end of the circuit with the breaker open, then test from the incoming (live) side of the breaker to the outgoing (earthed) side of the breaker. It is exactly the same circuit as you test by having the tester at the far end of the circuit except you connect the tester at a different point. Draw the two methods out if you don't believe me.
To modify it for the off peak board just test from the incoming live of the 24hr board to the dead side of the main switch of the off peak board with the breaker for the circuit closed.

Also use this circuit for testing central dimming system outgoing circuits, link at far end of circuit and test across the dimming circuitry with breaker open.

 

[davesparks]

Not all economy 7 or 10 have a time clock.
They are fed directly from the meter.
Technically they are a separate installation.
There are two methods for testing:
One is to wait until the board is live.
The other is to take a feed from the normal board to the Off peak board.
Another method is not to conduct live tests at all.

Third method is the alternative Zs test using the 24hr L

 

[davesparks]

Thank you.

I phoned the NICEIC. They said that I can do the follwing:

1) wait until it becomes live.
2 ) calculate the zs as per OSG section 10.3.6
3) phone the dno .

I said about linking over. They said they wouldn't recommend doing that for obvious safety reasons

Calculating the Zs is a waste of time unless you have all of the parallel paths exactly measured to factor into the equation.

 

[davesparks]

Perform R1+R2 tests, calculate Zs's using measured Ze from main DB, note on cert you have done this, job done. Am I missing something here? Only reason to link would be if RCD/RCBOs present on e7 board.

Waste of time calculating, you might as well not bother at all.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To my mind, when completing the form for test results, only the results from tests performed should be recorded.
In this particular instance, (unless the normal live is linked to the off peak board), I would just perform and record R1+R2, polarity and IR.