Is it ok to tell a customer where to go?

[captaincaveman]

I've seldom wanted to tell a customer where to go but just got back from doing a quote in Bredbury, Stockport where I very nearly did!
The customer was after 3 quotes for a rewire after his consumer unit "blew up" and was replaced by an "NIC" electrician who told him he needed a new rewire and rodents may have chewed through cables.

However the customer didn't want me to look at anything - even how to access under the floor which was laminate, or the new consumer unit. I had a look at the ccu none the less and found it had been replaced with a clapped out plastic one with both cover latches broken and different manufacturers components being used. No certificate had been given (and guessing no testing done or building control notification). The cabling, which was a mix of black/red & brown/blue and all looked ok/no thermal damage evident.

I told him the replacement was substandard and he may not even need a rewire but rather an EICR would be more appropriate. The chances are the main switch had burnt out due to bad connections and wanted replacing. Afterall if there was a cable fault then the fault would still be there and tripping the protective device as whoever replaced the unit evidentially didn't look for a fault in the rest of the installation.

Alas, the customer wasn't at all interested in the fact he had a substandard illegitimate board replacement and that he could save thousands just by having a survey done. In fact he was more angry that I had taken the cover off the CCU and was having difficulty getting it to stay on again!
As he just wanted a figure for the rewire without me looking round, and not interested that he may not even need one, I came to the conclusion he had already decided on this "reputable" installer was going to do his rewire and he was just going through the motions of being 'sensible' by getting 3 quotes. So I just drew a number out of the sky and walked out of there with no intention of returning having wasted an hour and petrol.

If the installer of this replacement CCU reads this I'd be interested to know your explanation for installing a broken, plastic, mismatched ccu without paperwork/testing and telling the customer he needed a rewire (when I suspect he doesn't)??

Also, Can someone set up a database of customers to avoid pleeeeeease!

 

[Petej999]

I've seldom wanted to tell a customer where to go but just got back from doing a quote in Bredbury, Stockport where I very nearly did!
The customer was after 3 quotes for a rewire after his consumer unit "blew up" and was replaced by an "NIC" electrician who told him he needed a new rewire and rodents may have chewed through cables.

However the customer didn't want me to look at anything - even how to access under the floor which was laminate, or the new consumer unit. I had a look at the ccu none the less and found it had been replaced with a clapped out plastic one with both cover latches broken and different manufacturers components being used. No certificate had been given (and guessing no testing done or building control notification). The cabling, which was a mix of black/red & brown/blue and all looked ok/no thermal damage evident.

I told him the replacement was substandard and he may not even need a rewire but rather an EICR would be more appropriate. The chances are the main switch had burnt out due to bad connections and wanted replacing. Afterall if there was a cable fault then the fault would still be there and tripping the protective device as whoever replaced the unit evidentially didn't look for a fault in the rest of the installation.

Alas, the customer wasn't at all interested in the fact he had a substandard illegitimate board replacement and that he could save thousands just by having a survey done. In fact he was more angry that I had taken the cover off the CCU and was having difficulty getting it to stay on again!
As he just wanted a figure for the rewire without me looking round, and not interested that he may not even need one, I came to the conclusion he had already decided on this "reputable" installer was going to do his rewire and he was just going through the motions of being 'sensible' by getting 3 quotes. So I just drew a number out of the sky and walked out of there with no intention of returning having wasted an hour and petrol.

If the installer of this replacement CCU reads this I'd be interested to know your explanation for installing a broken, plastic, mismatched ccu without paperwork/testing and telling the customer he needed a rewire (when I suspect he doesn't)??

Also, Can someone set up a database of customers to avoid pleeeeeease!

I've seldom wanted to tell a customer where to go but just got back from doing a quote in Bredbury, Stockport where I very nearly did!
The customer was after 3 quotes for a rewire after his consumer unit "blew up" and was replaced by an "NIC" electrician who told him he needed a new rewire and rodents may have chewed through cables.

However the customer didn't want me to look at anything - even how to access under the floor which was laminate, or the new consumer unit. I had a look at the ccu none the less and found it had been replaced with a clapped out plastic one with both cover latches broken and different manufacturers components being used. No certificate had been given (and guessing no testing done or building control notification). The cabling, which was a mix of black/red & brown/blue and all looked ok/no thermal damage evident.

I told him the replacement was substandard and he may not even need a rewire but rather an EICR would be more appropriate. The chances are the main switch had burnt out due to bad connections and wanted replacing. Afterall if there was a cable fault then the fault would still be there and tripping the protective device as whoever replaced the unit evidentially didn't look for a fault in the rest of the installation.

Alas, the customer wasn't at all interested in the fact he had a substandard illegitimate board replacement and that he could save thousands just by having a survey done. In fact he was more angry that I had taken the cover off the CCU and was having difficulty getting it to stay on again!
As he just wanted a figure for the rewire without me looking round, and not interested that he may not even need one, I came to the conclusion he had already decided on this "reputable" installer was going to do his rewire and he was just going through the motions of being 'sensible' by getting 3 quotes. So I just drew a number out of the sky and walked out of there with no intention of returning having wasted an hour and petrol.

If the installer of this replacement CCU reads this I'd be interested to know your explanation for installing a broken, plastic, mismatched ccu without paperwork/testing and telling the customer he needed a rewire (when I suspect he doesn't)??

Also, Can someone set up a database of customers to avoid pleeeeeease!

If the customer is being this much of a p--t then just inform him that you don't have the time or desire to do the work, thank him for the offer to quote,walk away and forget about it.

 

[Strima]

I often tell them where to go, and I don't get any repeat business off them, which is nice.

 

[MJPD29]

I've told people where to go in the past. Even had some come back to me a few months later. Got told where to go again and why

 

[littlespark]

You know the old adage:

“The customer is always sh1te”

 

[7029 dave]

Apart from wasting your time, look on the positive you are getting the feel of them first hand, what you have told us about this client I would have walked out within minutes and be grateful of a lucky escape, dont need that kind of clientele.

 

[Simon47]

I have to admit I've been on the other side.
I set high standards, and generally know what's-what - so bullsh*ers get short shrift. So when (in the last case I recall) there's this gas fitter telling me "this is what I'm going to do" when that specifically doesn't fit with information I've already given him, I tend to not be very impressed. Also, any questions along the lines of "is it possible to ..." were met by a very curt "no" - no "it would be possible but not a good idea because ...", or "it would cost more" (my choice whether I consider the extra cost reasonable), or "not practical because ...", just "no<period>".

In that case, he simply quoted a silly price which he almost certainly knew was going to be way off the mark.

* As in, "I'm not having the flue (points to location where putting the flue would be daft) there" - and he then states "I'll bring the flue through there" simply because it's the easiest route and he doesn't want to have to think.

But then, in general the only trades I employ are wetpants when gas is involved, and plasterers (because it's one thing I've never learned and it's very visible and hard to fix if you mess it up.

 

[baldelectrician]

I have had ones like this (ones where you are glad you walked away)

I had one I quoted which had kids and a consumer unit at kid height with blanks missing

I noticed a couple of things and mentioned this (which seemed to pi$$ off the owner) and instructed my apprentice to go to the van and get blanks

I told the lady it didn't matter if I did the job but I would put the blanks in for free, at this point she asked me to leave

I then sent her an electrical danger notification by recorded delivery and shortly afterwards I had an irate call from the husband saying 'how dare I send this' etc

Once he had calmed down I pointed out to him that I saw the kids toys and offered to install the blanks for free - I had him go over to the consumer unit on the phone and notice the missing blanks.

He told me he had 2 other electricians quote and they never mentioned it. I replied that instead of calling me and ranting about me letting him know about it he should be asking himself why the other electricians did not point this out.

I ended the conversation by telling him that I could not work for him as my standards were obviously too high and he would be better seeking someone to suit his needs better.

To reply to the OP directly
You dodged a bullet there, I would have taken photos and emailed the guy what I found on a visual recommending an EICR to cover my back.

 

[pc1966]

To reply to the OP directly
You dodged a bullet there, I would have taken photos and emailed the guy what I found on a visual recommending an EICR to cover my back.

Photographic records are always a good thing, no matter how good, bad, or ugly the job you see. That way if queried later you have evidence to back it up (along with date/time of vist stored in the photo's metadata), and if someone is less of a numbskull and just indecisive, you might have info to allow a quote later.

Folks sometime ask about a numbskull-list or similar but it could get you in to all sorts of legal wrangles should it get out. Just note for yourself in address list, etc, anyone you don't want to have further dealings with and in some "safe" manner should your phone fall in to another's hands (i.e. don't put Mr Numbskull or other expletive-of-choice that I can't use on a forum)".

 

[baldelectrician]

Photographic records are always a good thing, no matter how good, bad, or ugly the job you see. That way if queried later you have evidence to back it up (along with date/time of vist stored in the photo's metadata), and if someone is less of a numbskull and just indecisive, you might have info to allow a quote later.

Folks sometime ask about a numbskull-list or similar but it could get you in to all sorts of legal wrangles should it get out. Just note for yourself in address list, etc, anyone you don't want to have further dealings with and in some "safe" manner should your phone fall in to another's hands (i.e. don't put Mr Numbskull or other expletive-of-choice that I can't use on a forum)".

For 'clients' like this I put the contact details in my phone with DNA (do not answer) as the company name, then the phone comes up with their details and DNA below the name if they call again

 

[UNG]

For 'clients' like this I put the contact details in my phone with DNA (do not answer) as the company name, then the phone comes up with their details and DNA below the name if they call again

I do the same on my phone, although occassionally when I'm bored and want a laugh I'll answer it and reel off a message like an answer machine telling them they have dialled the wrong number and to end the call and redial using the correct number had one guy try 3 - 4 times I changed the message slightly each subsequent time with "this is the X time you have dialled incorrectly how many times do you need to be told". Quite funny listening to him telling someone that an answering machine was telling him he had dialled a wrong number

 

[ipf]

After having done maintenance/installation work at one firm for over FORTY years, a couple of years ago, the latest management regime took over. About 18 months ago I told them to stuff it and have had no contact since.....except, they had a spray booth fire, after which I was contacted, by the new safety officer, asking to provide a copy of an EICR carried out about 3 years previously.
Gave them a quote of a hundred quid to provide a copy, they sent an order number.....but somehow it went AWOL.
A yearly 15-25K worth of turn over down the drain, but.........Stuff 'em.

 

[timhoward]

For 'clients' like this I put the contact details in my phone with DNA (do not answer) as the company name, then the phone comes up with their details and DNA below the name if they call again

"SAP" in my case. (Serious Attitude Problem)

 

[buzzlightyear]

Not long a go me turned up to price a job
Told me to come back tommorow, me I said I'm to bizzy and left. Two weeks later the same chap ring up, he said did I ring you before, me yes, chap I have hmo and the spark, before he was trying to finish of what he was saying, some how the phone was cut off, me idoit, bloody cheek he rang up was starting to say, phone replied if you leave your number we will. Get back to you, silence on the phone.
It's great to have the power in your hand.

 

[LukeD]

Cut them short and move on.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If they are asking nicely, then I see no reason not to give them directions.

 

[captaincaveman]

"SAP" in my case. (Serious Attitude Problem)

SAP and DNA are good. I normally write a couple of words to describe why not to answer in the name box. From now on though I think I might use "DNO" - Do Not Oblige (or maybe - Definitely Not Ok) lol

 

[ControlsEngineer]

As an aside, I worked part time at a Home Depot in the electrical dept a few years ago to save for a down payment on a house. It was near Christmas and all these homeowners were coming in for cords, adaptors and such for outside lighting.
Being an electrician for almost 30 years I could answer questions but policy stated I was not supposed to offer construction/assembly/code advice as the store would be liable.
So a guy comes in and wants a 120V double male adaptor. I tell him there's no such thing, and it would be extremely dangerous. I asked him why he needed one and he said he stapled up his outside lights with the ends swapped. I suggested he switch the lights around for a proper install. That's when things started going south. He picked up some parts and asked if he could make an adaptor with the parts. I said more than likely, however there's a lot of liability for you if someone gets hurt or killed with said adaptor. He said that's not a problem I have insurance.
I said I see now why there's a setback from the property lines for single family homes. He said what's that got to do with anything? I told him to save his neighbor's house from burning down when his catches fire. He asked for the manager. The manager gave him 10% off and said maybe I wasn't cut out for retail. Ya think?

 

[timhoward]

So a guy comes in and wants a 120V double male adaptor. I tell him there's no such thing, and it would be extremely dangerous.

The last caravan I purchased (2nd hand) came with a 16A female socket inlet on it. So if the previous owner connected the supply end first they would been walking around with live pins in their hand.
I couldn't quite believe anyone would know enough to replace a socket but stupid enough to do that. Of course the first thing I did was swap it.

 

[pc1966]

I couldn't quite believe anyone would know enough to replace a socket but stupid enough to do that.

Alas, there is no lower limit on stupid!

 

[timhoward]

I forgot the pertinent bit! I always wondered if they used a standard lead and a DIY double-male adapter or made their own lead....

Alas, there is no lower limit on stupid!

Yes one company I do work for has an overly creative maintenance guy who is overly confident in their electrical abilities.
There is now a standard saying that the facilities manager and I regularly say to each other - "Never forget - nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool".

 

[Lister1987]

I find ---- works; Tight Wad Arrogant ---- ?

 

[brianmoooore]

So a guy comes in and wants a 120V double male adaptor. I tell him there's no such thing, and it would be extremely dangerous.

There was a major loss of power around my area for about two weeks, a few years ago, when freezing rain built up on the 11kV distribution lines and brought several miles of them down.
I came across loads of people using double male extension leads to plug small generators into the nearest convenient 13A socket.

 

[Simon47]

In a previous job, we got a call from one of our customers one day asking if it would work to plug a lead from a generator into a socket - because they'd got a notice about a planned outage. In the past I'd been up there with my small portable genny and run an extension lead up to the server room to keep the key equipment running, but this time they'd been given another option ...
I carefully explained that such a cable is called a widowmaker for a very good reason, and in any case they had a 3 phase supply and the socket would only power 1 phase. I think I had them with "widow maker" and "very dangerous" so the next bit was an easy sell - get your electrician to fit a power inlet and a changeover switch, which they arranged at very short notice.

Anyhow, I can't say too much as it would instantly identify the businesses concerned, our client's neighbour has a rather handy trailed diesel genny (around 80kVA IIRC) that they used to power some machinery if there wasn't a suitable site supply available. And the neighbour had offered to let them have some juice from it while they would be running their own office. And it turned out that said neighbour was in the habit of using this genny with a widowmaker lead (2off 32A 5 pin red BS4343 plugs) for their own premises.

On the day of the outage we got a call - the power inlet idea hadn't worked. So I set off, picking up my genny from home on the way. By the time I got there they'd sorted it - a combination of the inlet not having been wired correctly (no, no idea of details, this was just second hand via a non-technical person) and I noticed a somewhat bodged together cable in use (safe, but two cables into the BS4343 plug and socket).
I ended up chatting with one of the guys from next door. It turns out that their equipment only needs a 3 wire supply (no neutral), so all their cables only have 4 cores (3P+E) even though they had 5 pin plugs & sockets. So that explained why they'd had to bodge two cables into the plug & socket to get our client working - lucky not to blow any kit up I guess. I think I probably made some comment that this was dangerous, but his attitude was that only they'd use the cables for their own equipment so there was no problem. At the time they were still using a widowmaker in their own premises - and I definitely made a thing about the dangers in that (I think I saw them with an inlet fitted some time later)
I was really tempted to raise a RIDDOR about both the windowmaker and the 4 core cables - but at the time it would have caused big problems for us and our client, and I already had something of a reputation for putting noses out of joint.

 

[brianmoooore]

At least the BS4343 has a shroud around the live pins, although they're still readily touchable at the end, of course. The leads I wrote about had ordinary domestic 13A plugs on each end........
Four core cables with 5 pin plugs sounds a very good way to blow up something at some point.

 

[Andrew Hunter]

Also, Can someone set up a database of customers to avoid pleeeeeease!

Lol do you not know? “All costumers ar B——-d’s”

 

[Vortigern]

To answer your question, No! It is part of being a professional that we remain polite and ready to listen even if the dialogue is put to us in an unacceptable way. I feel that being polite is always the best course and is good for business. Having said that, it does not preclude saying firmly and politely that you would not be happy doing this job as it would not be a good outcome or words to that effect. But, no never be rude, there are all sorts of repercussions in doing so and it is best not to go there imho.

 

[baldelectrician]

To answer your question, No! It is part of being a professional that we remain polite and ready to listen even if the dialogue is put to us in an unacceptable way. I feel that being polite is always the best course and is good for business. Having said that, it does not preclude saying firmly and politely that you would not be happy doing this job as it would not be a good outcome or words to that effect. But, no never be rude, there are all sorts of repercussions in doing so and it is best not to go there imho.

I am the same, although I do comment on things I find on a quote to cover my back

Other times I just walk away and 'forget' to quote if I get a feeling

 

[Timbo]

There is now a standard saying that the facilities manager and I regularly say to each other - "Never forget - nothing is fool proof for a sufficiently talented fool".

We have a saying "Make something idiot-proof and they'll make a better class of idiot!"