RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A rant!

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Jimmy you're in the clear man, you might get to laugh at him if he comes back with his tail between his legs if you're lucky.

I do want him to experience the real world prices of a spark, the only fear back in mind is that the only other out come is that it's a collection of the 3 circuits earth leakage and the cooker is the demand that is tipping The leakage, but like I said all the circuit were above 100. But I just didn't think that the cooker would trip out at 1 meg, so like I said to tell my critical thinking mind I come up with the theory that when it's heating up, it all expands creating the fault. I think I get to laugh anyway because I know I do him a good price and he'll realise that when needing a sparky next.

 

[Meggerman]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I may be wrong as I trained under a previous version of the regs here but is it not a requirement that the testing includes a functional test? ie. turn it all on and make sure it works.

Or is it just me being daft by using common sense when I check that everything works as expected/intended after energising an installation or completeing all other tests on an EICR?

If I have read the OP correctly (not much chance with the state of the written english there) then the fault on the oven is occuring after it has been on for a while ie. its a faulty element which only shorts once it has warmed up a bit and everything has expanded. Basic oven element fault is that one, just test to make sure and then change the element, no need to go changing the whole appliance is there?

Did you even open the oven up to see if there was just a trapped neutral inside it? this is more common than you would think.

Don't understand that Dave. You are saying don't do I/R with loads connected as not in regs (but would really help) but are ok with taking oven apart which is definatly outside BS7671 scope and not his job to do. ?

 

[vxwestie]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Never do financial favours in business... The favour should be in the form of the support and service... Lol
if there was no load equipment when you tested, have faith in your ability and if recalled when things have been connected, go straight to them and eliminate them first.
sounds like you're in the clear, so put it all down to experience ..

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I may be wrong as I trained under a previous version of the regs here but is it not a requirement that the testing includes a functional test? ie. turn it all on and make sure it works.

Or is it just me being daft by using common sense when I check that everything works as expected/intended after energising an installation or completeing all other tests on an EICR?

If I have read the OP correctly (not much chance with the state of the written english there) then the fault on the oven is occuring after it has been on for a while ie. its a faulty element which only shorts once it has warmed up a bit and everything has expanded. Basic oven element fault is that one, just test to make sure and then change the element, no need to go changing the whole appliance is there?

Did you even open the oven up to see if there was just a trapped neutral inside it? this is more common than you would think.

i wasn't originally there to do the oven. I was there to actually do a EICR, he needed a satisfactory certificate. I said that it was in his best interest to upgrade the board rather than just souring certain certain circuits from the board on a RCD. I changed the board. When the tenant moved in all was good, the oven was on for about 20 minutes and then tripped. The board had already been upgraded, he wanted me to go back because he blamed the work that I had carried out - does this make sense.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Never do financial favours in business... The favour should be in the form of the support and service... Lol
if there was no load equipment when you tested, have faith in your ability and if recalled when things have been connected, go straight to them and eliminate them first.
sounds like you're in the clear, so put it all down to experience ..

Yer amen to that.

 

[trev]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I think what Dave means is that if you'd done a functional test on the oven you might have found it before all this but I have to say, if I'm doing a domestic EICR I don't go round checking the appliances so I'd have missed this one too.

 

[vxwestie]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Of course, if it looked like a dodgy secondhand oven that's been stood dormant in a damp shed for years before the landlord bought it, I could suggest turning every element up to max, whipping out the earth conductor and standing well clear! Lol
after 5-10 mins the fault may clear... And at the worse there would be a bloody great hole in the faulty element or the remnants of a faulty stat controller splattered around the kitchen ;-)
..... But obviously that is well outside the scope of bs7671 ...

 

[Meggerman]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Thanks meggerman need to refresh my knowledge of building regs then. Wasn't aware or the hob requirement, just the sink...
not the id have anything that close anyhow.

As long as I don't see one directly behind the hob, I don't have a problem with it. The majority a directly to one side.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Has the oven been sat dormant for a while? Or is it a new oven with the protective element coating causing the issue?
Cookers are notorious for this... There are ways to confirm this and possibly rectify, but only experience will help you there...

I don't know, he simply argue that it was working before I changed the board.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I can nearly always justify a new DB

Yer me too. Just seems right don't it.

 

[vxwestie]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Totally agree Trev about an EICR but we're talking about a db change here and the install of a RCD into the system. Common-sense would be to quickly test any loads before walking away.

 

[Meggerman]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Of course, if it looked like a dodgy secondhand oven that's been stood dormant in a damp shed for years before the landlord bought it, I could suggest turning every element up to max, whipping out the earth conductor and standing well clear! Lol
after 5-10 mins the fault may clear... And at the worse there would be a bloody great hole in the faulty element or the remnants of a faulty stat controller splattered around the kitchen ;-)
..... But obviously that is well outside the scope of bs7671 ...

That is so true!! I did similar once. Cooker had been left in garage for couple of years. Had to run it on non-RCD side for 20 minutes to "dry it out" before switching it back over

 

[davesparks]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Don't understand that Dave. You are saying don't do I/R with loads connected as not in regs (but would really help) but are ok with taking oven apart which is definatly outside BS7671 scope and not his job to do. ?

No I said testing of appliances is not part of installation testing but that appliance testing was as far as I know also mandatory for rented properties.

BS7671 does not define the role of an electrician! it is a set of regulations for electrical installations.
Appliance repairs, especially cookers, is a normal part of an electricians job is it not?

 

[trev]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Totally agree Trev about an EICR but we're talking about a db change here and the install of a RCD into the system. Common-sense would be to quickly test any loads before walking away.

Even then mate, I don't do it. Appliances are not my problem and I've always spelt that out.
Would you stick the washing machine of for a cycle?

 

[vxwestie]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Yer me too. Just seems right don't it.

Im hoping meggerman a comment was a bit tongue and cheek to be honest..

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Yes, well there was a shower recently put in by whom I don't know, no RCD, there was also a alteration to the boiler circuit from a wart heater which was wired upstairs to a combi which is now wired downstairs no RCD.he had 2 sockets within 300mm in the kitchen to the hob and sink, I know this is just in the building regs, but in my opinion it wAs a better outcome to upgrade the board rather than spuring out in such a tight space as I could only fit a 6 way board In the cupboard where the board was located.

If I am wrong please explain, cos I thought any alteration to a circuit then the whole circuit had to be done to the current regulations.

What the hell is a "wart heater"??

I thought the treatment for warts is to freeze them.

 

[davesparks]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I think what Dave means is that if you'd done a functional test on the oven you might have found it before all this but I have to say, if I'm doing a domestic EICR I don't go round checking the appliances so I'd have missed this one too.

Yeah thats about it.

I wouldn't check appliances on an EICR, but after changing a CU and adding RCD protection I do check that the important appliances all work without tripping RCD's, Fridges and freezers, oven, immersion, boiler, kettle (naturally the most important )

 

[vxwestie]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Even then mate, I don't do it. Appliances are not my problem and I've always spelt that out.
Would you stick the washing machine of for a cycle?

Not plug in appliances, no Trev.
like I say, I've just learnt the hard way, I always do a quick check on immersions, boilers, water heaters, ovens, hobs, showers etc. surprising how nanny faulty ones I've found, and always easier to explain to the customer on site rather than have a call back at my expense...

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

Age of alterations is irrelevant as far as EICR coding goes. If the alterations have recently been carried out other than in accordance with the regulations then the owner of the property should take it up with the person who did the work for him.

Well I was under the impression you test to the age of the installation, ie both works were carried out and should of been put on an RCD. Also maybe I am wrong, but who puts satisfactory when there is an electric shower with no RCD, just sends a shiver up my spine. I thought at the end of the day it comes down to the testers professional look at the regs are a guide.

Could I have said satisfactory then you think?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Re: RCD trip after board upgrade. Frustration who on my side? Who's on landlords? A r

I've always hated wart heaters too Jimmy, I always thought they had to be frozen off

Haha ..... Snap bonny lad!!

I posted the exact same thing before I saw yours!

Geordie humour eh??