PIR Pricing - ridiculous

[jedisparks]

One of my regular customers who ive been working for for years is moving abroad and are planning to rent their house while they are away.

Their letting agent has told them they need an "electrical rental certificate" Obviously we all know on here that such a thing dosent exist so i assumed they meant a PIR. The letting agents gave her a price and she thinks they are ripping her off so she asks me for a price because ive worked for them for years and she trusts me.

its quite a large 4 bedroom house with 3 seperate outbuildings each wit theri own CU. So i just phoned her and said that would be 170 pounds (still abit cheap really but wanted to keep them as customers). she nearly fell off her seat. i asked how much the agent had quoted and she said 85 pounds. so i wonder what the hell their inspection covers cant be much for 85 squid.

there no way i can do it that cheap, really anoying not only am i being undercut but ive lost a good customer in the process.

rant over thanks for reading

 

[pennywise]

you'll probably find that half the certificate would have been filled out before they even got to the job at those rates , it's got to be a full day in my book, as you say slightly cheap on your quote but still a fare price.

 

[UNG]

Would bet the agent is taking a cut on the £85 as well

 

[roukel01]

We do alot of work on rented properties, when we were approached to do something similar, we gave a price and the same thing, they thought we were miles out, I then asked to see previous "Landlord certificates" and the people who currently do the testing, simply do a visual and Earth loop tests on socket circuits, and thats it.

Until people are educated on what is required, or the whole PIR system is revamped so that people know what they are paying for, this kind of thing will continue.

 

[jedisparks]

As far as im concerned ive gone in too cheap anyway. it will be a full days work no doubt. and that is including vat! but like i said id like to keep them as theyve been good customers in the past. the lady is going to speak to the agent to find out exactly what she will be getting.

I think the whole PIR, Visual condition report, landlord certifcate thing does need sorting out as this sort of thing comes up alot. very confusing for customers and creates an uneven playing field for us.

clarity greatly needed me thinks

Maybe a "landord Certificate" needs to be introduced with a standard format very similar to a PIR. that way when a landlord asks for a "landlords certificate" every one knows what they mean.

 

[jedisparks]

just realised, ive probably posted ths in the wrong place, sorry

 

[Guest123]

I bet the agent uses a certain company that carries out combined inspections.....*** ****.

I've seen these people at work.....leaves a LOT to be desired.

 

[wattsup]

I once quoted 90 quid for a small terraced, the landlord said 'we have a quote for both electric and gas testing for 60...i said, you best let them do it then.
To be honest I'm sick of landords, slow payers (once not at all) want immediate response, quote before starting work...

Now if landlord or agent I just say no thanks, we no longer work with letting agents etc etc...no point, the hassle is not worth it

 

[Scott F]

I bet the agent uses a certain company that carries out combined inspections.....*** ****.

I've seen these people at work.....leaves a LOT to be desired.

Thats putting it mildly

 

[bobodhi]

Unpleasant situation to find yourself in, question is, what to do?
Cut your own throat or starve? or maybe you think of yourself as the professional you are and give them the price and leave it.
We're all aware that eventually they will get burnt and then who will they call to pick up the pieces?
You. (assuming you haven't given up in the meantime )
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
If you make like a carpet, expect to get walked on.
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Hold your head up, we're better than the fools.
Good luck!

 

[tuckermot]

£80.00 they are taking the mick !!!!

I am in buisness to make a profit not a loss !!!

I charge £150-£200 for a 3-4 bedroom house with that they get a full days testing with a pir that actually means something

 

[Spudnik]

Until PIR's become a legal requirement on rentals, this will continue to happen.

 

[rocker]

Ask this lady to ask her letting agency if they would be happy to have a qualified electrician there when their boys are doing this £80 inspection.

 

[Scott F]

Most people only care about the price . I have been told after a similar situation happened to me that a visual

( I followed *** ****) is the least that the insurance companies will except and if I told the landlord the

price is a days rate he would run a mile. they also have a little disclaimer at the bottom . to cover their

behind . Its annoying bite your lip and move on

 

[bramboy]

We lost work with a letting agent for being to fussy on tests. Just minor things such as no earth main in place or crumbling conductors behind sockets.
We had to right the money off because another firm gave the tennant a `pass` P.I.R. that was the agents verdict!

Its not over tills its over on the money side thou

 

[lloyd1980]

This is the problem unfortunatly, commercially ( exception of shops ) clients care about the regs being met and seek someone who can do a good job even if they may not always be the cheapest
Domesticly its a different kettle of fish, all they care about is that figure at the bottom of the estimate, they dont care about quality, its purely the cheapest person will get it, if someone offered to rewire a semi for £90 then mrs jones down the road would snap their hand off, and would assume she was getting the same job as someone whos quoted £1700. this is the nature of the beast and joe public is always searching for a bargain which is why although I dont mind house bashing there is no money to be made there at the moment if you are doing things how they should be done and not being a cowboy
I priced a rewire the other week, fella says to me look i need it as cheap as possible i can pay cash if that helps - told him it needs certifying so labc informed and that cash is more expensive to deposit than cheques etc, did him a quote to the bones making hardly anything on it and didnt hear anything from it, god knows what the fella who got it priced it at, hed prob have just changed the board socket and switch fronts and left the cable as it was
(and yes unbelevably I have come accross houses where this has been done )

 

[MvP Electrics]

only inspection i would do for £85 is a visual inspection.

I know there are some dodgy estate agents who got some dodgy electricians that would certify anything for £100. I heard some dont even need to look at the property and they can certify.

amazing stuff taking electrical inspections to a whole new level.

 

[Phil]

only inspection i would do for £85 is a visual inspection.

I know there are some dodgy estate agents who got some dodgy electricians that would certify anything for £100. I heard some dont even need to look at the property and they can certify.

amazing stuff taking electrical inspections to a whole new level.

yeh seen all that before, one day that hundred quid may not be worth the corporate manslaughter charge that may follow if something goes wrong. i for one will not put my name to something i am happy to go to sleep on when i get home.

 

[DurhamSparky]

i just took on some agent work on @ £25 for visual inspection and that consist of looking at the plastic fittings to see if any are broken, 2x loop tests and up to 6 pat tests!! THATS ALL !!!

i also check the rcd and the inner workings of the CU for any obvious signs..!! (beyond scope but it keeps me happy)

for PIR they Pay £70 quid which is not an awful lot but any faults i found i dont have to fix..!! i just note them down and i then get a second job paid hourly / up to £150 per day for labour.

i can see how certain companys do 4 a day and cheat but im too honest and i like my ability to sleep at night.

i dont mind earning £70 quid in a day as the way i see it is there is little outlay in expenses on a PIR and i book them for days when im not busy any way so it fills my book out..! (plus i like working mornings only so its handy! and bear in mind most rental houses my way are 2 up 2 down and have about 4 circuits only!! TYPICAL EX PIT ACCOMODATION... 1 light circuit 1 socket circuit , cooker and smoke!! ocassionally a shower!

even better for a visual as i got 3x in one day very close together!! all knocked off in 1 morning!


any private landlords coming my way get my full price of £50 visual and £125+ for PIR

 

[eddielarge]

i just took on some agent work on @ £25 for visual inspection and that consist of looking at the plastic fittings to see if any are broken, 2x loop tests and up to 6 pat tests!! THATS ALL !!!

i also check the rcd and the inner workings of the CU for any obvious signs..!! (beyond scope but it keeps me happy)

for PIR they Pay £70 quid which is not an awful lot but any faults i found i dont have to fix..!! i just note them down and i then get a second job paid hourly / up to £150 per day for labour.

i can see how certain companys do 4 a day and cheat but im too honest and i like my ability to sleep at night.

i dont mind earning £70 quid in a day as the way i see it is there is little outlay in expenses on a PIR and i book them for days when im not busy any way so it fills my book out..! (plus i like working mornings only so its handy! and bear in mind most rental houses my way are 2 up 2 down and have about 4 circuits only!! TYPICAL EX PIT ACCOMODATION... 1 light circuit 1 socket circuit , cooker and smoke!! ocassionally a shower!

even better for a visual as i got 3x in one day very close together!! all knocked off in 1 morning!


any private landlords coming my way get my full price of £50 visual and £125+ for PIR

The problem is your selling yourself cheap,, WHY

 

[jamie-spark]

jedisparks

that quote is cheap your doing them a favour for that price. I work for a small family company we do work for a small college and like some of the other guys say, a company that does there PAT testing also plugs a martindale into the sockets then sticks a pass sticker on and thne college thinks this is inspection and testing. We are trying to educate them but it could take a while. I think some sort of goverment body should step in to tell them whats required.

 

[DurhamSparky]

Eddie, Until i have the ability to turn down work like some sparks i have to take every thing i can,

So far i have done a few jobs for the management company and i have been lined up more, i would rather be out earning some money rather than none at all..!

like i said it fills my book and keeps cash coming in maybe not as much as i like but rather me than some body else!

 

[eddielarge]

Eddie, Until i have the ability to turn down work like some sparks i have to take every thing i can,

So far i have done a few jobs for the management company and i have been lined up more, i would rather be out earning some money rather than none at all..!

like i said it fills my book and keeps cash coming in maybe not as much as i like but rather me than some body else!

My point is that u are doing work very cheap , therefore people will tell there mates that u are cheap , and then expect similar.

where i work i am constantly competing with companies who employ cheap labour . therefore the average daily rate is forced down to compete.

If we didnt charge low just to get work then the average price would increase

 

[jedisparks]

Ok just to give you an update. I spoke to the client today and she said the letting agent told her that the their sparks would do an "EIS certificate". I just said ive never heard of one of those, but if thats all they want you to have then go for it.

She said she didnt want to risk it and rather they used me because they know me etc. and can take care fo any probs while theyre away. so ok ive got the job in the end albeit for a cheap price. But has anyone heard of an EIS certificate coz i havent?

thanks for all your replies by the way

 

[Patrick_g46]

The problem is your selling yourself cheap,, WHY

What would you say is a good price then?

 

[Phil]

eis, could be a companys own offer of a service i have heard one offering a "electrical inspection service" could be that as you know it`s not a pir most probably just an inspection but when the customer thinks they are getting the same thing for a lot less money thats where the genuine sparks loose out. glad your customers value and trust you to take your offer rather than the cheaper option customers like that are great, and plenty of good word of mouth follow up`s.

 

[martysparky]

I have not read much of this post but
They don't have to do a PIR legally do they.

sounds like a scam to me just giving there clients something that sounds important but has no merit really.
You thought PIR the client would prob think she's getting just that for £85

Scam being do over the electrician and make them look expensive so the client pays the agent £85 for next to nothing.

I would be inclined ask your customer to ask for an example cert from the agent and then you could explain the reality.

I bet the agent would not do that though.. Alarm bells for your client subsequently

Just my thoughts

 

[rocker]

Ok just to give you an update. I spoke to the client today and she said the letting agent told her that the their sparks would do an "EIS certificate". I just said ive never heard of one of those, but if thats all they want you to have then go for it.

She said she didnt want to risk it and rather they used me because they know me etc. and can take care fo any probs while theyre away. so ok ive got the job in the end albeit for a cheap price. But has anyone heard of an EIS certificate coz i havent?

thanks for all your replies by the way

I would say she probably means an EIC certificate. They will probably do a Zs, estimate an R1R2 from that, make up some RCD tripping times and write '>200' on an installation cert! Yay!

 

[jase]

We do alot of work on rented properties, when we were approached to do something similar, we gave a price and the same thing, they thought we were miles out, I then asked to see previous "Landlord certificates" and the people who currently do the testing, simply do a visual and Earth loop tests on socket circuits, and thats it.

Until people are educated on what is required, or the whole PIR system is revamped so that people know what they are paying for, this kind of thing will continue.

The beloved NICEIC those would be rulers of the universe actually sell pads of DOMESTIC VISUAL CONDITION REPORT which as we all know doesnt exsist anywhere within the regs and isnt worth the paper it`s written on as it clearly states on the back of it that it is a joke and a full PIR is a proper test, i believe the going rate for one of these is £50 so the letting agent is bunking this up to £85 and the householder sods off abroad believing the house is nice and safe when really no-one knows, A big shout out to the government and the NICEIC for ousting the cowboys with part P

 

[Johno]

It all just makes a mockery of the rules we follow

 

[martysparky]

Yeah and the big electric companies like the big five offer them free so they can scare the house owners into rewires etc.

 

[UNG]

A big shout out to the government and the NICEIC for ousting the cowboys with part P

Part P hasn't ousted the cowboy's it provided HMRC with a traceable work history for tax purposes. There are a lot of Part P cowboys out there I've seen their work!

 

[shakerbess]

The people that do it for 85 quid spend 20 mins make results up put limitations to cover them. If a person trusts you and you are honest in your approach let them pay 85 quid for a micky mouse PIR. The price you set is also cheap but i understand you see them as a good customer but to do PIR in the right manner could take several hours we all know its rare to visit a job with paper work and circuits identified. I would advise the couple and if they want to burn 85 quid let them

 

[jase]

the biggest mickey mouse outfit of all is the niceic for providing these visual inspection certificates, also anyone who is competent can do a PIR and it isnt notifiable under part p, why then do niceic want an extra £280 on top of your part p registration for them to "allow" you to do PIR's?