Why are sparkys waiting for the 2357?

[cobbydale]

Hi All

All the talk and speculation regarding the new 2357 is driving me crazy. There is a simple solution sign up on the old qual 2356 before December, thats it!

The qual is really aimed at new apprentices with employment so for a practicing operative (sparky) it will cost a packet to achieve. New units and the AM2 are mandortary and we all know how much these two cost.

Some company's are charging thousands, some high hundreds.

No site assessments
No travelling
Build an online e-portfolio using evidence from work, which your assessor will guide you on, SIMPLE.

 

[Spa Key]

Hi All

All the talk and speculation regarding the new 2357 is driving me crazy. There is a simple solution sign up on the old qual 2356 before December, thats it!

The qual is really aimed at new apprentices with employment so for a practicing operative (sparky) it will cost a packet to achieve. New units and the AM2 are mandortary and we all know how much these two cost.

Some company's are charging thousands, some high hundreds.

No site assessments
No travelling
Build an online e-portfolio using evidence from work, which your assessor will guide you on, SIMPLE.

Again? Most if not all of your 15 posts talk about this company. If you want to advertise why not ask for a sticky in the relevant section(s)?

 

[GStueyXR]

Not the best advertising for your company when you cant get the link right !!

 

[wallyanker]

Not the best advertising for your company when you cant get the link right !!

lol.. was just gonna say the company appears to have changed its name to "internet exploror cannot display the webpage"

 

[Spa Key]

No site assessments

Can I just highlight this bit. What's stopping me using the evidence my brother built up for his 2356 to gain the NVQ with this company? If there are no site visits etc then how do they know who is doing the work?

 

[cobbydale]

You would need to be his identical twin to use this evidence. Also witness statements are used and these are contacted as well as the companys/clients.

 

[ezzzekiel]

its all a scam, if you can build portfolio without a site visit then as stated anyone could be doing it for you.
stick with college for any of your training needs all these training centres care about your money only and should be shut down, theyre watering the industry with half trained sparks

 

[cobbydale]

How can the city & guilds 2356 standards be wrong or a scam?
A practicing operative with technical knowledge does not need site visits.
As for watered down spark, 25years experience from the UKs biggest electrical installation company to domestic work,running my own company and evey electrical qualification ever to be produced, I think watered down is NOT a good description.
Maybe someone has their own hangups?

 

[Voltimax]

and evey electrical qualification ever to be produced, I think ?

Is this not a slight exaggeration? Every electrical qualification ever produced? I don't think so sir

 

[cobbydale]

ok maybe not all but most, I was cross when typing due to the response from someone who has no idea about course funding.
Colleges only offer the NVQ to apprentices (under 25s)

 

[Spa Key]

ok maybe not all but most, I was cross when typing due to the response from someone who has no idea about course funding.
Colleges only offer the NVQ to apprentices (under 25s)

No they don't. Lad on my 2330 is in his 30s and is doing the 2356.

 

[Adam W]

A guy on my 2330 was in his mid 40s and did the 2356.

 

[ezzzekiel]

ive just done mine and im 40,
and no need to be cross my opinion was not aimed at you in particular but 2 week wonder courses.

and the point still stands, if there are no site visits then anyone could pass on the log book info needed to pass the nvq.

also my local college provided the nvq3 FREE

 

[sparksflying]

its all a scam, if you can build portfolio without a site visit then as stated anyone could be doing it for you.
stick with college for any of your training needs all these training centres care about your money only and should be shut down, theyre watering the industry with half trained sparks

I am afraid that your suggestion is flawed for the following reasons.

As part of assessing an NVQ one would have to use a range of assessment methods to satisfy the external verifier from the awarding body, i.e. city & guilds. By using video, witness testimony, photos, professional discussion (audio/video-recorded), question & answer, copies of qualifications, and various site generated evidence there should be no doubt about the authenticity of the candidate. If there was any doubt the awarding body would refuse issuing the certificate and could close down the training provider.

Universities are using this method of learning around the UK and indeed the world e-Portfolios : JISC so why shouldn’t training centres? Maybe we are just reluctant to accept change and believe that the conventional mode of delivery is the best. However, this is not necessarily so, especially with an NVQ when it is about competency in the workplace. I think charging for site visits (up to £250.00 a visit) is a con, especially when we have the means and technology to assess competence remotely for a fraction of the cost.


Regarding the new qualification, you should look at the Colleges Electrical Installation Forum for their point of view.
“The whole rationale of the qualification migrating to QCF has been used as an excuse to exclude anyone who is not an apprentice. Unfortunately the consequences will not be felt immediately and when it becomes apparent that there is nowhere to train people it will be too late” (Neil Hargreaves, 2010). Welcome to CEIF Online

 

[ezzzekiel]

disagree, any witness statement, photo/video can easily be mocked up (having said that so can a site visit if you know the right people) but still not the point im making.

Training centres are charging crazy money for courses provided by local colleges for a fraction of the cost.
They are advertising "become a electrician within 2 weeks and earn 50k+ "
Nvq3 is open to all ages.

Ive just completed an online Nvq, which without the site visits i could of very easily satisfied all the requirements without working in the industry.

 

[cobbydale]

I would love to know where 40+ students get the whole package for free. Government funding is for under 25's unless it was last year when their was some Train to Gain money for adults which has all gone. Anyone over 25 must be whole or part funding this course.

As for making an NVQ up this would be spotted by the assessor or internal verifier, then the EV.

My personal view still stands why await for the 2357 which excludes over 25's. The new qual will cost!! so beat the system. From £510 not even a college could provide this service, thats why colleges are contacting providers to pick the lads that have paid to sit the L3 2330.

Where do you think the assessors have come from straight from site? No
They are tired of working under government funding and red tape!

 

[sparksflying]

disagree, any witness statement, photo/video can easily be mocked up (having said that so can a site visit if you know the right people) but still not the point im making.

Training centres are charging crazy money for courses provided by local colleges for a fraction of the cost.
They are advertising "become a electrician within 2 weeks and earn 50k+ "
Nvq3 is open to all ages.

Ive just completed an online Nvq, which without the site visits i could of very easily satisfied all the requirements without working in the industry.

See your point regarding fraud; however, a decent assessor should be able to detect a fraud by using the full range of methods including question and answer or professional discussion. Admittedly, if someone was intent on obtaining an NVQ by committing fraud then there would be little that a person could do about their intentions. One would hope that they would get rumbled during the process.
I totally agree with your point regarding the “boil in a bag” courses that offer immediate competency in a couple of weeks. This is all wrong and came about with the introduction of the part P. This was supposed to make the industry safer, similar to the old “corgi” for gas fitters. What we have now is an industry where people can take a short course and pass themselves off as competent without having a clue. Worse still, set up a company and sign other peoples work off. Defeats the object it was intended to solve (bad workmanship and unsafe practices).
There is talk, and has been for some time, about electricians becoming licensed. Hopefully, this will happen sooner rather than later. In the meantime, I would advise anyone (especially if you have 2330 level 2) to grab the 2330 course while it is still available and progress down the NVQ route while that is still available. The new qualification is going to be a nightmare and many colleges are not going to offer it at all.
Regarding the costs charged by the training centres, the colleges can only afford to offer courses at a fraction of the costs due to Government funding. Unfortunately this is all due to change very soon and you will soon see colleges charging much more for the courses on offer due to Government cuts. Basically, if you are over 19 you will have to pay something, even worse for those over 25 as there will be no funding at all, or very little. The target audience is the 16-18 year old apprentices, and like training centres, colleges are chasing the money for survival in a competitive market.

 

[ezzzekiel]

I would love to know where 40+ students get the whole package for free. Government funding is for under 25's unless it was last year when their was some Train to Gain money for adults which has all gone.

not sure on that, you may well be right, when my asses contacted me he said it was free and i didnt want to argue why

sparks flyings last post is excellent and pretty much covers my views, although his is better worded

and dont get me started on PartP

 

[tonynulty]

I am glad i am nearly out of it, 66yrs young, 6yrs apprenticship, college 3 nights a week after work, you didnt become a sparky untill you had your A+B Certs City & Guilds, + served your time, today its a joke, part P, become a sparkie in 2yrs what a load of crap, you where classed on your ability, if you were no good you were sacked.

 

[dodger]

I would love to know where 40+ students get the whole package for free.

I've just finished my 2nd year of a fully funded apprenticeship at the age of 48. I think it was funded by the skills council but not sure.

Original I just signed up for the C&G 2330 and asked the college about help with funding as I had already spent over £2000 on C&G 2381, 2391 & 17th update.

They suggested I apply for the apprenticeship. Had to have an interview & provide evidence of existing qualifications and prove I was working in the trade.

I was lucky to be accepted and appreciate all the help and advise I received from my local college.