Need Some Advice / Guidance

[Corbs]

Right some back story

we rent a unit, 3 years ago they upgraded/updated the old consumer unit (metal, pull out fuses to a crappy plastic crabtree ) as they said they needed to for new regs / insurances etc

now get a letter through as there 3 years old there due for inspection and testing (the normal lot) thats fine

they come out 2 hours later they say your failed right ok what on

1, sockets arnt earthed (10 or so sockets fed from 20mm conduit and thats fed from 50x50 galv trunking they say it requires its own cpc (check pic out)

my question are they correct or does the conduit and trunking surphise / accactable and why didnt they pick this up when they changed the board ?

2, my 3 phase spot welder isnt earth and you cant use the swa as an earth as it doesnt have banjos on the metal boxes either end so need to be re run

my question i think this is bollox but at most it just needs banjos fitting

right or wrong?

the install was done 20 or so years ago if it matters by a commercially sparky

pics below

any questions or more pics just ask

ta shaun

 

[Pete999]

What testing did they do?if any, did they say the installation had failed verbally, or via an EICR document. If what you're saying is correct, it sounds like these guys a right outfit, come back with pics of the report sheets and the EIC certificate for the board change.

 

[Corbs]

tbh dont have a clue all was done with a mft thats as much info i could get off them, They didnt leave any paperwork with me for either the board change (3 years ago) or what they did on this inspection

which i though they have too being rented esp a board change

 

[Pete999]

tbh dont have a clue all was done with a mft thats as much info i could get off them, They didnt leave any paperwork with me for either the board change (3 years ago) or what they did on this inspection

which i though they have too being rented esp a board change

Did you order the work on behalf of you're Land Lord, or did you bypass him altogether? Looking more than likely these guys are Cowboys, if the Land Lord requested the work ask Him for a copy of both the Report and the Certificate, do you know if they belonged to any of the Competent Persons Schemes (NICEIC, STROMA, NAPIT, ECA etc)

 

[westward10]

It is perfectly acceptable for the armour of a swa cable and metal containment such as steel conduit and trunking to be used as an earth providing its continuity is satisfactory. The swa cable should be fitted with "banjos" though.

 

[Corbs]

Did you order the work on behalf of you're Land Lord, or did you bypass him altogether? Looking more than likely these guys are Cowboys, if the Land Lord requested the work ask Him for a copy of both the Report and the Certificate, do you know if they belonged to any of the Competent Persons Schemes (NICEIC, STROMA, NAPIT, ECA etc)

sorry didnt answer one of your q in the last it was verbally until he typed up the report for the landlord

and landlord arranged everything

tell me about it they didnt know how to wire up / from a 3 phase supply and said my 3ph welder was dangerous due to it only having 1.5mm hr flex needs 2.5mm only pulling 10 amps

and as soon i get anything from the landlord i will post it up

see the situation i dont want is the landlord coming back and saying my install is dangerous when its not and the landlord changing me to put it right on the basis of the muppets who tested it

niceic top right on the board

 

[Corbs]

It is perfectly acceptable for the armour of a swa cable and metal containment such as steel conduit and trunking to be used as an earth providing its continuity is satisfactory. The swa cable should be fitted with "banjos" though.

as i thought and thats fine as i thought, so the gland and nut isnt really acceptable for earthing (yes the armor is terminated correctly)

 

[westward10]

No it should have the "banjos" fitted.

 

[Corbs]

No it should have the "banjos" fitted.

thats fine so the supply doesnt need to be re run tho ?

 

[MJPD29]

Sounds like they are trying to hold you prisoner for your cert by making you pay them to do 'remedial' works. Seems to happen an awful lot. Get a different spark in don't tell him anything on the last one and see what he comes up with!

 

[telectrix]

banjos may not be necessary if the metal casings provide earth continuity and there are flyleads added where neeeded.

 

[telectrix]

whereabouts in wales. one of us may be close to give a 2nd opinion.

 

[Corbs]

Sounds like they are trying to hold you prisoner for your cert by making you pay them to do 'remedial' works. Seems to happen an awful lot. Get a different spark in don't tell him anything on the last one and see what he comes up with!

thats the problem i cant as its rented

 

[Corbs]

whereabouts in wales. one of us may be close to give a 2nd opinion.

if it comes down to it i will and your not too far from me

 

[telectrix]

just give me a pm if needed.

 

[Corbs]

just give me a pm if needed.

ta

 

[MJPD29]

Is the landlord paying for the spark but your paying for the work? If your paying you should be able to get whoever you want

 

[Corbs]

Is the landlord paying for the spark but your paying for the work? If your paying you should be able to get whoever you want

landlord is paying for the check / test as weve put the new supplies in for our equipment any changes / not upto regs are coming out of my pocket

same goes if anythings wrong with his side he has to pay

 

[Corbs]

right had an hour to spare

tested from the earth point in the isolator (spot welder end) to armoured sheath and got continuity

other end tested from earth point on the fused supply to the armoured sheath and got continuity

now tested from earth point in the fused supply to the met and got continuity

my question

from the met to the earth point in the isolator (spot welder side) via a fly lead what resistance roughly if any am i looking at

 

[telectrix]

all depends on the csa of the cable or the armour and it's length. figures can be obtained in the osg.

 

[MJPD29]

right had an hour to spare

tested from the earth point in the isolator (spot welder end) to armoured sheath and got continuity

other end tested from earth point on the fused supply to the armoured sheath and got continuity

now tested from earth point in the fused supply to the met and got continuity

my question

from the met to the earth point in the isolator (spot welder side) via a fly lead what resistance roughly if any am i looking at

Your looking for a low resistance, if you have a multifunction tester I'd advise you carry out a Zs as well

 

[Corbs]

all depends on the csa of the cable or the armour and it's length. figures can be obtained in the osg.

ta will try and find the table

 

[Corbs]

Your looking for a low resistance, if you have a multifunction tester I'd advise you carry out a Zs as well

what sub 5 ohns ? and dont have a mft (not a sparky)

 

[telectrix]

what are you measuring? a core conductor or armour?

 

[Corbs]

what are you measuring? a core conductor or armour?

earth path eg from the isolator by the appliance to the met

as the testers say theres non / not upto standard

 

[telectrix]

as i said, the resistance will depend on what you are measuring. what size MCB is feeding the circuit? e.g. if a 32A type B, then i'd expect the resistance to be less than 0.5 ohms.

 

[Corbs]

as i said, the resistance will depend on what you are measuring. what size MCB is feeding the circuit? e.g. if a 32A type B, then i'd expect the resistance to be less than 0.5 ohms.

no mcb but 32amp replaceable fuses (i think there type 269)

 

[telectrix]

so definitely less than 0.5 ohms, depending on the external Ze could be less. no way to determine without using test meter/s

 

[Corbs]

so definitely less than 0.5 ohms, depending on the external Ze could be less. no way to determine without using test meter/s

thats fine least i have something to go off

 

[Toneyz]

I can not see any earthing conductors at the mains intake.There is nothing wrong with using the trunking and conduit as the C.P.C. but I can't see how this is earthed back to the consumer unit.

 

[Corbs]

I can not see any earthing conductors at the mains intake.There is nothing wrong with using the trunking and conduit as the C.P.C. but I can't see how this is earthed back to the consumer unit.

this is where the stupid sparks came in

they removed a metal board which the conduit was connect to it, and shoved a plastic crappy one in but not redoing / terminating the earth so atm its not earthed as i would of thought they would have done it when they changed the consumer

 

[ipf]

this is where the stupid sparks came in

they removed a metal board which the conduit was connect to it, and shoved a plastic crappy one in but not redoing / terminating the earth so atm its not earthed as i would of thought they would have done it when they changed the consumer

Understand. But AB is saying there should still be a main earth terminal....the original metal board should have been connected to it.

 

[Corbs]

Understand. But AB is saying there should still be a main earth terminal....the original metal board should have been connected to it.

yea there is on the side of the main i guess you would call it fuse holder (main incoming supply)

tncs supply if it matters

 

[Toneyz]

yea there is on the side of the main i guess you would call it fuse holder (main incoming supply)

tncs supply if it matters

Just couldn't see it in the photo and I thought it was the case regarding a metal conduit from the old metal C.U. to the trunking being removed and replaced with flexible PVC conduit removing the earth continuity.

 

[Corbs]

Just couldn't see it in the photo and I thought it was the case regarding a metal conduit from the old metal C.U. to the trunking being removed and replaced with flexible PVC conduit removing the earth continuity.

Yep another thing for me to sort / fix

 

[Toneyz]

No this is down to the electricians who installed the C.U.

 

[Corbs]

No this is down to the electricians who installed the C.U.

Well you would think will give me a bit of ammo anyway

 

[ipf]

Well you would think will give me a bit of ammo anyway

I'd call that a BAZOOKA.......not installing a main earth

 

[Toneyz]

Have you got any photo's where the original C. U. is shown with metal conduit between?

 

[Corbs]

No sorry but it was the same connection as the sockets

Coupling and brass bush

Only know this due to the coupling still being on the end of the conduit