2-way switch... my head hurts

[Mjward]

Don't know if it's because its Friday or a long week but my brains have turned to mush trying to figure this out.

In a nutshell: I have a downstairs hallway pendant with a 2-way switch. Fantastic. Well, no, both switches are on the ground floor. I want to add a switch to the top of the stairs (and at the same time add a second light fitting for stair lights). One of the switches is currently 2-gang (for hallway and landing) and that is the location I want to keep (and will make 3-gang to accommodate stair lights). The other switch is currently 3-gang (for hallway and 2 study lights) and I want to make it 2-gang for just the study lights and relocate the second hallway switch to the top of the stairs.

The problem: From what I can tell, it is the second switch, i.e. the one I want to (re)move that is the one with the feed to the hallway pendant.

I was wondering if the below would work:

1) Remove all hallway pendant wires from second switch (the one I don't want)
2) Then at that location, connect the wire that was in the COM terminal (and heading to pendant) into one of the wires that was in L1 or L2 (doesn't matter which) via a wago connector
3) At the first switch (the one that is staying) run a 3 core and earth to the new switch location. Connect the corresponding L1, L2 & COM together and then also connect the cable in 2) (i.e. going to pendant) into L2 on the first switch.

 

[timhoward]

So to simplify the description a bit...
You have a hallway pendant, and two switches for it downstairs.
You want to lose one of them.
You want to add a switch upstairs.
You also want to add a 2nd light fitting to the same switching.
Correct so far?

 

[Mjward]

Correct, the dilemma being the power to the pendant comes from the switch I want to remove.

 

[timhoward]

I think you describe the same solution, but here goes:

You want to end up with new 3 core+E connecting all three terminals of First Hallway Light switch with the new switch upstairs.
In addition you need a permanent live feed connecting to L1.
You then need to use one of the current conductors between the two downstairs switches to transfer switched live from L2 at the remaining switch to the pendant.

(So the two wires currently in COM should end up in L1 with the new wire)
That is stage one.

Stage 2, the extra light.... the other consideration here is where the neutral is coming from. You could use L2 at the switch upstairs as a switched live to the new fitting, but you'll need a neutral from the same lighting circuit as the hall too from somewhere.

Does that help?

 

[timhoward]

So reading it again, basically what you said! I couldn't follow it until I'd arrived at the same conclusion for some reason....

 

[Mjward]

As long as we got to the same place I am delighted!
Re the neutrals, its an old system where you have the single & earth running from switch to switch for the live feed and the neutrals go from light fitting to light fitting. So for the new stair light circuits I have the choice but I think makes sense to tap into the downstairs neutral, that way the landing switch and things it controls are all on the same downstairs circuit.

 

[timhoward]

Yes, you should tap into the downstairs neutral. That way if the two circuits ever end up on different RCBO's or different halves of a dual-RCD board it's future proof.

 

[Mjward]

In fact whilst in the subject, would love recommendations for stair way LED lights.

Something I had fitted to the last place, small round recessed lights (around 3cm diameter), warm white, white surround would be perfect.

But, I'm struggling to find anything similar, most seem to have a stainless steel surround (guess intended for outdoors) and are quite large lights.

 

[Electrics]

In fact whilst in the subject, would love recommendations for stair way LED lights.

Something I had fitted to the last place, small round recessed lights (around 3cm diameter), warm white, white surround would be perfect.

But, I'm struggling to find anything similar, most seem to have a stainless steel surround (guess intended for outdoors) and are quite large lights.

3cm?

White All LED 30mm Dia 1W IP44 LED Marker Lights 3000K - https://www.bltdirect.com/all-led-30mm-dia-1-watt-ip44-led-marker-light-warm-white-white-finish?cat= ?

 

[Electrics]

Ps i'm interested in the cable of unknown origin.

 

[Mjward]

3cm?

White All LED 30mm Dia 1W IP44 LED Marker Lights 3000K - https://www.bltdirect.com/all-led-30mm-dia-1-watt-ip44-led-marker-light-warm-white-white-finish?cat= ?

That looks to be the bad boy I need! Thanks fella

 

[Mjward]

Ps i'm interested in the cable of unknown origin.

Haha you and I both. I assume it was a bit of future proofing ie it's gone somewhere the previous owner/spark thought might be an eventual termination. Alas for now it's just a black and red wire connected via a chocbox?

Not sure if you've seen some of my other posts but long story short, moved into this house a few months ago and the electrics are "intriguing"! Sadly I can't even blame a DIYer as it was all certified.

 

[Markyd]

quinetic recievers and switches

 

[Mjward]

quinetic recievers and switches

Corr just had a quick look at those. Smart tech and I suspect that or something similar is the future. Have the home as one giant Faraday's cage, where your phones are charged simply by being inside and lights/switches etc all get their power wirelessly.

For now I'd be happy if they invent cable clips that glide through brick?

 

[pirate]

Save time and hassle, go Quinetic...it's the solution for just your problem, and many more

 

[Markyd]

Corr just had a quick look at those. Smart tech and I suspect that or something similar is the future. Have the home as one giant Faraday's cage, where your phones are charged simply by being inside and lights/switches etc all get their power wirelessly.

For now I'd be happy if they invent cable clips that glide through brick?

Dont get me started on cable clips

 

[freddo]

For now I'd be happy if they invent cable clips that glide through brick?

Use Unifix clips, probably the best you can get. Far better than that Tower/Schneider crap.

 

[brianmoooore]

For now I'd be happy if they invent cable clips that glide through brick?

There's a white brick around my part of the world, that was used for a hundred years or so, known as a Marland brick.
NOTHING penetrates them. The carbide tips just melt off of the ends of SDS bits, and the edge of diamond discs just melts a shallow groove into the brick.

 

[Mjward]

Use Unifix clips, probably the best you can get. Far better than that Tower/Schneider crap.

Will give them a try thanks ?

 

[Mjward]

There's a white brick around my part of the world, that was used for a hundred years or so, known as a Marland brick.
NOTHING penetrates them. The carbide tips just melt off of the ends of SDS bits, and the edge of diamond discs just melts a shallow groove into the brick.

Ill guess I'll be grateful for my almost impenetrable 115yr old Yorkshire brick!? At least it reluctantly succumbs to an SDS!!