Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice please

[davidwynd]

Hi there all, great site, have tried to find an answer to my fairly specific question but to little avail... so if you would be kind enough....

I've brought over (to England) a fairly old 6 bulb brass chandelier from Finland this Christmas, looks a little like this:

http://image.euroluxantiques.com/euroluxantiques/userimages/LargeImages/12-49-1.L.jpg

(But not as fancy)

It is tricky to age, but I'd guess around 15 years old or more, it has no markings or stickers etc that would indicate if it is Class II (double insulated) but there is no earth.

I am wishing to install this in our recently rewired house, which of course has an earthed lighting circuit. Now although the bulb fittings appear sound, the wiring is not corroded at all, and I have replaced the old (tired) ceramic junction box with modern brass/plastic terminal blocks - I'm still unsure if it is double insulated and would like to consider adding an earth terminal on the lamp itself.

My questions are:

- Is this possible/a good idea/necessary?
- If so, what's the best way to go about it?
- Does it matter that the dimmer I'm using is also brass/metal?

Many thanks for any advise in advance.

Kind regards
David

:seeya:

 

[Knobhead]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

If you can get, an earth to the main body of the lamp. It’s very similar to one I had in my last flat. That did have an earth terminal inside the “bulge” where the separate lamps radiate from. (It was a pig to get to though).
Yes earth it!

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

If you can get, an earth to the main body of the lamp. It’s very similar to one I had in my last flat. That did have an earth terminal inside the “bulge” where the separate lamps radiate from. (It was a pig to get to though).
Yes earth it!

Hi Tony

Thanks for the feedback, yes this has really easy access, no problems there.

Could you tell me exactly how the earth looked? How was it mounted? Was it just a brass terminal in a plastic housing?

Thanks
David

 

[Knobhead]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

It was a very small lug on to the centre shaft of the fitting.

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

It was a very small lug on to the centre shaft of the fitting.

Ah okay thanks Tony.

Actually, i've just discovered these:
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

It has an earth tag in the base itself, which would solve my problem

David

 

[Mark42]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Hi David

NO! Earthing the ceiling hook plate is not enough.

There’s no guarantee that earth continuity will continue all the way to every part of the fitting, especially if the brass is lacquered.

This is not a joke – brass fittings like these are genuinely dangerous if not earthed properly – it’s possible that over the years, with hot lamps present, a live conductor could become exposed and contact the brass body internally.

With care, and laying out the parts in order (!), these chandeliers can easily be taken to pieces. There’s a threaded rod down the middle (sometimes hollow) with a knob at the lower end, and usually a big loose nut at the top.

All the components stack up on this rod. But don’t do what I often do and forget which order they came in – you’ll be forever putting it together again, wondering if it looks right

Inside the fitting there may be an earth lug somewhere, maybe where all the twin leads from the individual lamp holders come together. Alternatively, fit a new lug around the main support rod: a fitting under the nut at the top is a good place. Or even just two washers with the earth cable wound between. There should be room inside the ceiling dome for this as well as the main connection.

Then a 3-core flex runs from here, up the chain, to your ceiling hook plate. Be sure the flex is slightly longer than the chain so it is not under any mechanical stress.

Also be sure the hook plate is screwed to a joist, not into plasterboard, since a heavy chandelier crashing down onto your guests is rarely helpful. You may have to offset the plate slightly to get the flex through, or drill an oblique hole through the joist. It’s easier if it’s a top floor and you have loft access.

Have fun! Mark.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Here’s ‘one I made earlier’ in my own house. It’s not very clear from the snap, but I fitted an earth lug under the top support ring, which screws onto the centre shaft. The fitting, from EBay (where else?) was originally unearthed.

A short wire runs from there to the connections. I used solder and shrink fit (to protect prying fingers since this part of the fitting is not in contact with the ceiling) but a more routine method would be an insulated connection block.

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Hi Mark - thanks for all the info! I understand now, and will do just as suggested - will report back once all p and running

Yours looks amazing by the way - great work.

Regards
David

 

[nick21]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

How did you get on with this David?

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

How did you get on with this David?

Hi Nick

It went well actually, i ran the earth down to the main body of the chandelier, all good.

The hard part was installing the additional joist in the ceiling (floor upstairs) to carry the weight of the thing!

But all in all works well, on a dimmer switch too - will try and add a photo.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Well done David, it sounds like a fine job!

Let's see a picture then

ps. And if it's an antique fitting, don't forget to stock up on a lifetime's supply of tungsten candle lamps. These things never look right with CFL or LED lamps (I bought a shed-load of twisted, frosted, opal, and 'coup de vent' candles before they were banned)

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Well done David, it sounds like a fine job!

Let's see a picture then

ps. And if it's an antique fitting, don't forget to stock up on a lifetime's supply of tungsten candle lamps. These things never look right with CFL or LED lamps (I bought a shed-load of twisted, frosted, opal, and 'coup de vent' candles before they were banned)

It's very different from yours.. and you'll see that I still have some remedial work to do around the hook plate... but it's up at least! (finally)

http://i.Upload the image directly to the thread.com/YClJ2.jpg

 

[davidwynd]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

It was my fiancée's late grandmother's, I had to take it in my hand luggage from Finland to London! eek!

 

[Knobhead]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

I can understand why the suspension point had to be strengthened!

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

looks good.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Nice work, but being a lazy get i will stick to the white 6 inch pendants which i have throughout my house:blush5:

 

[telectrix]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

i hate pendants. so 70's.

 

[Guitarist]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

70's are sooo last year...

 

[UKMeterman]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

So no repeat of Del Boy and Rodney drop the chandelier - Only Fools - BBC - YouTube ?

 

[Strima]

Re: Adding an earth terminal to a European brass light fitting/chandelier - advice pl

Classic clip. Apparently the 'fake' chandelier they used was worth more than the original one.