Advise

[Shlort]

To the all Master full ones……:clap:


I am a newbie and am seeking some guidance and advice. Before I ask my question please understand my situation.

I am British South African, I left South Africa in 2008. I had to abandon my studies in Electrical Engineering due to a few close encounters with the wrong end of a gun (Armed Robberies). I managed to get my NVQ 2 before I left. Since landing home in 2008 I did the first thing that was needed. Find a job, in the blink of an eye 7 years passed and I had gone from desk job to desk job. It was not what I wanted as I loved working with electricity, Last year I decided enough was enough and left my job and did a career change to finish my studies. I tried applying for 3 apprenticeships, as you can guess for a 30 year old male with wife and 2 kids, I didn’t get far. My only other choice was to study myself. So I hunted around and found one, I paid near on £6000 all seemed well until the training provider pulled the 2365 lvl 3 diploma from the course and never offered the refund, They also took 6 months to provide me with my 2394 and 2395 certificates. So those 2 combinations have left me in a huge financial pickle. I have taken them to ombudsman but this is a lengthy issue.


I have passed and received my certificates for the following subjects bellow.
City & Guilds 2377
City & Guilds 2382
City & Guilds 2392
City & Guilds 2393
City & Guilds 2394 (45min to write the theory exam)
City & Guilds 2395 (30min to write the theory exam)
Part P Domestic Installer Certification

I am now in a situation where I can’t work as I don’t have the 2 years’ experience to work as a part P domestic installer (needed to join CPS) nor do I have the £800 to join NAPIT or £1000 for NICEIC, I can’t get ECS card to work on construction (not arguing the point completely agree that it is needed and the requirements to get one). I don’t want to find another office job it will kill me….. But I am faced with this as my only option.

I need a foot in the door, electricians mate or something, I have tools and some experience that I did for free whilst studying. I have a meter and can do testing.


My question: I need guidance / pointing in the right direction. Can anyone electricians or Training providers point me in the right direction, I have tried contacting ECS / JIB about the qualifications I have and what card I would be able to get they were very helpful by saying, we can’t discuss this over the phone. Please submit an application..

 

[Marvo]

Welcome to the forum boet. Good luck with finding a way forward.

 

[TJ Anderson]

I can advise you regarding your JIB card to save you writing to them. They will only grade you as an Electrician and issue you Gold Card if you hold an NVQ3 qualification. The C&G 2357 is the qual you need to achieve. There is also an EAL NVQ3 which the JIB accept.

 

[Jez Wilkins]

Re: Advice

Hi Shlort.

You are twenty-five years younger than me – but seem otherwise to be in a pretty similar situation to where I was three (or so) years ago. Have a search on the site using my user name, to find the posts that I made at the time.

In the four years since I passed my 2391, I have worked for a year and a bit doing production type work and six months as an electrician’s mate.

I am currently looking for work – electrical or administrative, and getting nowhere fast with either – so, starting today (Monday), I am going to widen my criteria, to include production type work, once again.

You ask for advice. I note that you already quite heavily (nearly £6k) into retraining, that you cannot afford £800/£1,000 to join NAPIT/NICEIC and that another office job will ‘kill’ you.

My advice is based on you having a good/hard/long think about your priorities.

If another office job really will ‘kill’ you, then you will have to go with what you’ve already got. In which case, I would get a list (from Yell.com) of all the electrical contractors within (whatever miles radius you choose) of your home and start ‘cold calling’ (or writing to) them, to see if anything turns up. My County Council has a ‘Trusted Trader’ list – if yours has, also, you could try that for more company names – make sure, though, that you cross reference your lists, so that you don’t appear unprofessional, by duplicating your enquiries. If you can find/obtain any other sources for company details, use those, too. Also, and obviously, apply for any advertised jobs that you find that you have the qualifications/experience/references to be able to do so (but I doubt that you will find many, if any, where you will ‘fit the bill’.)

Based on the qualifications that you have, I suspect that the above course of action will not get you very far (it didn’t work for me, three years ago). If you really are serious about getting a job in the electrical industry, I would first do the following. Get a job (any job) and get some more money together. Then get yourself on an IPAF course (£200-£300), obtain an asbestos awareness certificate (£40[?], online) and also obtain an ECS/CSCS card. [The ECS not giving grading information out, either by phone/email and wanting you to apply, has not changed from the experience that I had with them, around three years ago. There is a recent thread here, http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...cal-nvqs/110344-ecs-h-s-test.html#post1186266 about ECS/CSCS cards, which you may find useful to read.] Then start your ‘cold calling/writing’ and applying for advertised jobs.

Your other route into the electrical industry is self-employment. If you search on this site, you should find references to the annual fees for other organisations than NAPIT/NICEIC, and where the fees are less than £800/£1,000. You can, apparently, undertake work on your own property, to meet the requirements for ‘jobs’ that the trade associations inspect, as part of the application process. Only you can know if this (i.e., self-employment) is a course of action that you are prepared to put yourself (and your wife and your two kids) through.

It is said that ‘hindsight is twenty/twenty vision’. Had I known, in June 2009, when I was made redundant, what I know now, I would have chosen a different route, to the one that I actually did take.

You asked for advice and I’ve given you mine. Other poster’s mileage may differ. What you take on board and what you choose to ignore is, obviously, a matter for you and yours. I hope that you make the correct decisions, for all your sakes, and very best wishes for the future.

Cheers,

Jez Wilkins

 

[Shlort]

Re: Advice

HI

The position I am in is mainly down to the training provider pulling the 2365. my stepping stone to the 2357 as well as taking 6 months to provide me with my certificates.

I did phone around for CPS schemes, STROMA being the cheapest. However when they said they would alter my CV to meet the 2 years experience I turned away, I wasn't going to start my electrical career committing fraud.

Instead of going on holiday we put the money into childcare (so I can study) and studies, had I not been screwed around I would have qualified by now as I have budgeted and saved and planned this.

I have cold called contractors and large companies, but its the same treatment all around, electrical contractors despise the fact you can spend 2 weeks in a classroom and then be allowed to work in a house when they have spent 4 years doing that, so its not for lack of Trying, I will find one I am in no doubt about that.

If I have to I will go back to office work, but was hoping not to.



Thank you for your advice

 

[Jez Wilkins]

Re: Advice

Hi again Shlort.

Shlort said: 'The position I am in is mainly down to the training provider pulling the 2365. my stepping stone to the 2357 as well as taking 6 months to provide me with my certificates.'

Can only sympathise with you, regarding your treatment by your training provider.

Shlort said: 'I did phone around for CPS schemes, ****** being the cheapest. However when they said they would alter my CV to meet the 2 years experience I turned away, I wasn't going to start my electrical career committing fraud.'

Thanks for posting your experiences. This is news to me, but maybe I am alone in this.

Shlort said: 'I have cold called contractors and large companies,… so its not for lack of Trying'

Elsewhere on this site, around three years ago, I posted details of the ‘cold calling’ of electrical companies that I had done. I forget the precise number (and haven’t searched for the thread) but, from memory, it was somewhere around two hundred – large companies, small companies and ‘one person’ bands, within a ten(?) mile radius of where I live.

Shlort said: 'but its the same treatment all around, electrical contractors despise the fact you can spend 2 weeks in a classroom and then be allowed to work in a house when they have spent 4 years doing that,'

The ‘electrical industry standard’ for an employee has been, still is and probably will be, for years to come, someone who is apprentice trained and ‘time-served’. I don’t think that there is any getting away for this – it is a reality and something that you have no choice but to accept.

My experience has been that there is a more than adequate supply of ‘electrical industry standard’ applicants, for the amount of work that is available. Put yourself in the position of an electrical industry employer and then ask yourself the question ‘Why should I take on somebody who is not to my preferred ‘electrical industry standard’, when I have more candidates of that standard than I have jobs to offer them? Seems reasonable, when viewed from this perspective, or not?

Please don’t take offence from the content of the two paragraphs immediately above, as none is intended. Also, for the record, having started my retraining at the tender age of 48, it will be obvious to you that I am not ‘electrical industry standard’ either.

The quote above shows that you have already experienced a flavour of the ‘electrical industry standard’ for employees and I have no doubt whatsoever that you will come across it again in the future, if you choose to continue pursuing a career in the electrical industry.

Just as an aside (and I am aware that your reply was probably word processed in a bit of haste, as you were preparing to go to work this morning) but just have another read of the quote above. This forum site is widely viewed, including by people who might be in a position to offer you the ‘foot in the door’, that you ask for in your opening post. So, assume for a minute that I have an electrical company. I read your first post and think ‘Hmmm, maybe I can do something for this chap? Then I scroll down to your second post, read your quoted section and see you ‘rubbishing’ my industry. Would I then think ‘Hmmm, maybe not?’ Would you think the same, or different, if the roles were reversed?

Shlort said; 'I will find one I am in no doubt about that.'

I like determination in a person and I sincerely hope that you will, for your sake and for that of your wife and your children. Could I politely ask you to extend to all those who may come to the site in the future to seek career advice, the courtesy of letting us know how you get on – to add to the ‘collective knowledge’ about such matters?

Shlort said: 'If I have to I will go back to office work, but was hoping not to.'

Being single is one thing - being married with a child (or children) is quite another, isn’t it? The number of people that can truly say that they love what they do to earn money must be pretty small, I think, and the majority of us have to do some stuff in our lives that we really don’t want to do. I cannot say, hand on heart, that I am relishing the prospect of production work (probably shifts, including nights) at £7.20 per hour, but there you go.

Shlort said: 'Thank you for your advice'

No problem. In short, my advice to you, based on my experience over the last almost seven years is, if you want regular money and relatively few sleepless nights, stick with your office work.

Cheers, once again,

Jez Wilkins

 

[Adam W]

Re: Advice

electrical contractors despise the fact you can spend 2 weeks in a classroom and then be allowed to work in a house when they have spent 4 years doing that

It's great to hear from someone who has the pluck and determination to find a training provider to sell them an alternative route into the industry. Who cares if some electrical contractors have chips on their shoulders? If they hadn't messed about at school they might have been able to squeeze 4 years of training into 2 weeks as well. Just remember this every pay day when you're taking home the same as them for doing the same work. In fact more - with your superior intelligence you could earn more than them.

 

[Jez Wilkins]

Re: Advice

Is it just me – or has this thread entered some sort of weird parallel universe?

Cheers,

Jez Wilkins