Another should i, shouldnt i do the course thread!?

[MikeThePrinter]

I'm new to this site, been reading the threads for last couple of hours about electrical quals and course etc, i'm basically asking the same questions as in most threads but hopefully all in one, and opefully not too much of a mixed response as i've read!? its got me so confused with all the conflicting answers etc!

I'm currently a printer (hence the username!), i earn decent enough money, but am looking to make a change in my career and i've always wanted to be an electrician.
I have limited experiance, i've done a couple of re-wires with an electrician, and worked between shifts on site doing the domestic related wiring on new build apartment blocks under supervision, then on my own i've added spurs, added into main rings, changed sockets and just some general domestic stuff.

I've been looking at doing a "professional Electrical Course" with Access Training, in Cardiff, i've been down there, been shown around whilst courses were happening, all looked pretty decent and the courses are always 2 or 3 waiting list if booking on etc, the walkaround and information has led me to believe this is my best option as i can do the course between my shifts as i have 14 or 19 days off every 7.5 weeks, i asked the owner about employment after the course and he said i'd still have to start as an electricians mate, as experiance is required and a part of completing the course requires on site inspection, and also said even after that i'd still be a mate until the employer was happy, which could be upto the 2yrs many need, but some even in the first 6 months if they are good and the fact the quals are there, that makes me see him as realistic?????

The course states that i would have 2 years to complete the course, but from talking to him he said i could do it in 6-12 months with my time off blocks and commitment

the below is stated as the qualifications from the course

• Part P EAL Domestic Electrical Installer - Full Scope.
• The 17th Edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations - City & Guilds 2382.
• Certificate in Fundamental Inspection and Testing - City & Guilds 2392-10.

**the guy did say to me he wouldnt wanna put me onto next qual until i got my head around the above for a while????

• Inspection, Testing & Certification of Electrical Installations - City & Guilds 2391-10.

the course is about £4500 all in, based on modular training with a total of 4 weeks to complete the practical training, assessments and exams at the centre


At the moment this is my only option as i cant afford to do an apprenticeship and it fits in with work, i'm caught in the monaey trap as some may say, and next yr i will be in a far better position to take the drop to mates rates, i just want to get an idea of if the course is what i need to be an electrician, and if i will be on mates rates for at least 2yrs, also if i can do the course, get a mates job and be legally allowed to do my own electrical work to help with the drop in money???????

sorry for the length of this, im just trying to think of the other threads and get everything in

thanks in advance
Mike

 

[montybaber]

First thing i'd say is consider this very carefully, the industry is bursting with new recruits ar=t the moment and very little find companies to take them on.

main thing is good luck mate

 

[MikeThePrinter]

i know what you mean about the industry, but i do have an employment opportunity with my uncle as a mate with or without the course being done, and for me its either do the course then work with him, or work with him and do the course in holiday days or unpaid days, or work with him and go to college a day a week forever!!!

i do want to do this, but only if it means i dont lose my house etc !! lol

the guy who showed me around at access was very informative, and seemed a decent guy, would you be able to comment on the qualifications, i.e. if they are what i need to be qualified and possible progress to full employment a bit quicker and if they are what i need to legally do my own electrical work in my own time?

thanks
Mike

 

[montybaber]

The qualifications as I see it allow you to register with the NICEIC as a domestic installer and will allow you to self certify your work (means that you can do work under part p) Im afraid your options are limited on qualifications..ideally you would go to college and complete 2330 levels 2 and 3 as well as nvq3 (im not sure whether they take anyone over apprentice aga though and places are limited)

this will take a lot longer but this would allow you to register with JIB as an electrician once finished

Its up to you really..its not easy im afraid

 

[MikeThePrinter]

yeah ok, thanx for the replies mate, i'll certainly now check the possibilities about doing the 2330 levels 2 & 3 before going ahead with the course, but i think i'd probably not be able to afford an apprentice wage, maybe see if i can do it on same basis but on mates rates, but if money is deciding factor i could end up still only being able to get on the course and seeing if can get off mates rates asap!?

also, am i correct in saying that i can register as JIB electrician with 2 yrs experiance after the course anyway? and what does it enable me to do as JIB registered anyway? i.e. could i not do certain stuff between doing the course and getting 2yrs experiance before registering?

 

[montybaber]

You can work for your uncle as a mate and complete the 2330 as long as you can spare 1 day or a couple of evenings a week for a few yrs long term it is the only way to be fully qualified as an electrician and will allow you to move on anywhere else

regarding your edit you could not be registered as an approved electrician with JIB without nvq3 and 2330 as far as i know

 

[MikeThePrinter]

well thats interesting to know, maybe only affording to do the mateswork with evenings or a day off could be the only way, and basically be an appreticeship, i do after all want to be fully qualified if i want to work for myself one day maybe?
and sorry to bug, but what does the JIB registered actually mean, is that basically what you are if you do it the 2330 way?
thanks

 

[montybaber]

I believe JIB grading allows you to work on certain contracts etc and proves competency although many dont seem to think its worth it personally I dont know as I cant get one as I have no NVQ3

 

[bazza2541]

Forget the courses for now, go to work, do the jobs, get some money in your pocket. If you are still intrested in 3 months look for courses then.
The most important thing you can get is experience. I cannot stress that enough. Qualifications don't make you a spark. The term book-educated eejit comes to mind.
Get the experience then you will have something to relate the theory to.
As for fast track..........pppffffffft!

 

[Risteard]

JIB Grading can only be achieved with a relevant Level 3 NVQ (in addition to the other necessary qualifications, e.g. Technical Certificate).

 

[montybaber]

Id say it was a healthy balance between theory and practical knowledge, may be worth perhaps looking to enrol september etc and see if the industry suits you by working in your off time on your current job.

You will struggle to make 40k plus in this industry im sorry to say, it is achievable but to very few

 

[MikeThePrinter]

im not looking to make that money as such, i am looking at earning enough to live, not have to work the 12hr day and night shifts i do working every other weekend on fri sat and sun days or nights, this week im working fri, sat and sun nights 6 till 6!!!
and maybe one day being able to have enough about me to work for myself but still be able to live, i have a good idea of what wage i can live off comfortably, but im writing on here to make sure i can do it and it not take me 10yrs!!!, and not make a big mistake by leaving one job to do a course thats not the right way in,

i really do get the experiance thing, as even my uncle has said he wont be paying me above mates rates until i have good experiance behind me no matter whats qualifications i have, i'd just like to know is there anything wrong with doing a course, then being a mate for 2 yrs to get experiance, that way i get to have qualifications without having to lose a days pay every week to!?

and whats happening in 3 months!? (not being cheeky-just dont get it!)

 

[montybaber]

lol only reason I said september was normal college enrollment

I know all about shifts mate I work 12hrs 4 on 4 off but i have to say it suits me ( i dont do nights though)

 

[bazza2541]

With three months experience under your belt, you will know weither or not its for you.
Also, If I take on a young fella and he doesn't know how to wire a house in three months he is gone.

 

[MikeThePrinter]

i'd ike to add i do like the sound of doing the 2330 1 day a week whilst on mates rates-obviously better than the 40 quid apprentice rate per week! but again, affording might not be an option for me
but still, i'd like it as i'd be doing it "properly"

 

[montybaber]

With three months experience under your belt, you will know weither or not its for you.
Also, If I take on a young fella and he doesn't know how to wire a house in three months he is gone.

You must get through some apprentices!

i'd ike to add i do like the sound of doing the 2330 1 day a week whilst on mates rates-obviously better than the 40 quid apprentice rate per week! but again, affording might not be an option for me
but still, i'd like it as i'd be doing it "properly"

There is always evenings and to be honest if your anything like me you will enjoy the theory, you will have a hell of a lot more options open to you but its all dependant on your circumstances

 

[bazza2541]

Nope.
I don't tolerate wasters, house bashing is easy, there are very few things to learn. Three months is more than adequate.

 

[montybaber]

lol...doesnt that go against most of what you have written tonight?

 

[MikeThePrinter]

cool, i could defo do in 3 months, take me on then! (as a mate though not apprentice!)
whats the score with taking people on then, do u have apprentices or just mates and some do the 1 day college thing?
worst thing is i like my job, sometimes its easy, sometimes its so hard u wanna cry or quit on the spot, but its the nature of the beast with machines i run, but shifts are really the only thing ruining it for me now, i really want that change, like i said i get 14 or 19 days off every 7.5 weeks, but i work 2 shifts one week, 5 shifts the next, being mon, tues, fri, sat and sun on the 5 day week, and wed, thurs on the 2 day week, alternating days then nights all the time, so fair time off, but weekends kill me so often, espec the nights now, and the thought of maybe working self employed one day is appealing obviously

 

[bazza2541]

lol...doesnt that go against most of what you have written tonight?

If you think house bashing makes you an electrician, you have a loooooong way to go.

cool, i could defo do in 3 months, take me on then! (as a mate though not apprentice!)
whats the score with taking people on then, do u have apprentices or just mates and some do the 1 day college thing?
worst thing is i like my job, sometimes its easy, sometimes its so hard u wanna cry or quit on the spot, but its the nature of the beast with machines i run, but shifts are really the only thing ruining it for me now, i really want that change, like i said i get 14 or 19 days off every 7.5 weeks, but i work 2 shifts one week, 5 shifts the next, being mon, tues, fri, sat and sun on the 5 day week, and wed, thurs on the 2 day week, alternating days then nights all the time, so fair time off, but weekends kill me so often, espec the nights now, and the thought of maybe working self employed one day is appealing obviously

Can you be in Letterkenny for monday at 8am?

 

[montybaber]

With all due respect you have no idea how far I have to go

So in your eyes Fast track domestic installers forefill all requirements to their job

 

[bazza2541]

With all due respect you have no idea how far I have to go

So in your eyes Fast track domestic installers forefill all requirements to their job

Hey you wanted the start!
As for house bashers, besides the power wiring there is faultfinding, testing and inspection, television networking, telephone networking and home networks. Most aren't taught in school and the most important of the lot, faultfinding can only be taught on site.
I hate fast tracking, its no good for the industry, the employer or the tradesmen.

 

[MikeThePrinter]

am i right in saying thats ireland.....if so, lol, thanx, but no, i finish work 6am monday!!!
pretty sure that traveling on any wage would see me single and being hit with a repossesion!!!

on another note, thanx for the replies about my actual questions, i didnt wanna just go through the (LANGUAGE PLEASE) with ur quick fix course stuff, believe it or not ive had that off 1 of the other 11 printers in my firm as i run a type of machine after 3yrs training that all the time served take 10-15 yrs to get on and run and earn the money, but all the rest see me being there as a credit to me in how i put my head into the job, the compnay owner took a punt on me as he needed a position filled that day and didnt want a time served progressor, he wanted a person who knew the large type of machinery, and with the help of 2 of the time served guys i kept my head down got through the trial period and now get respect as a printer from al;l but 1 including the owner who was also time served etc, obviously wrioting this as its my best eselling point-i try to explain it to get a position as being very commited and very able and adapt

and i've had very positive feedback from my uncle and the time served sparky's who ive mated for on site doing stuff, hence him offering me a position!

 

[montybaber]

Hey you wanted the start!
As for house bashers, besides the power wiring there is faultfinding, testing and inspection, television networking, telephone networking and home networks. Most aren't taught in school and the most important of the lot, faultfinding can only be taught on site.
I hate fast tracking, its no good for the industry, the employer or the tradesmen

A start in what?

How long do you give your apprentice to learn that then

500 posts !

 

[MikeThePrinter]

certainly not trying to have ego, just saying!

 

[bazza2541]

A start in what?

How long do you give your apprentice to learn that then

500 posts !

A start in the job.

4 Years, although they also have to learn, SWA, MICC, Steel conduit, tray, basket, trunking, and all the associated house keeping, stock management, record keeping and how to make tea.

And congratulations on the post thing.

 

[MikeThePrinter]

lol, now i get the 500 post thing!

 

[montybaber]

A start in the job.

4 Years, although they also have to learn, SWA, MICC, Steel conduit, tray, basket, trunking, and all the associated house keeping, stock management, record keeping and how to make tea.

And congratulations on the post thing.

Thanks but I started in 1996 and no offence but domestic does not interest me think you may have got me mixed up with the OP lol, interested you still teach MICC though looks like the colleges dont anymore!

501 posts and no sense in any of them!

 

[bazza2541]

1996? Bloody newbie. Still use MICC for fire alarms and in filling stations.
And I refuse to buy in pre-manufactured bends although I will allow the use of a 4inch grinder, I am not a total tyrant.
My bestest punishment is to hand over two lenghts of 20mm light guage and make the offender thread them into nipples, which are checked atdays end before being ----ed into the bin, now thats harsh.

 

[MikeThePrinter]

i just worked it out, as a mate, i'd get about 285 a week and thats working 5 days, so would have to do evening courses for the 2330, thats less than half what i earn a week now which is accepted, but still even about 165 quid less than what i think i could drop to, is the extra 165 achievable after gaining experiance and qualifying??? how much would a sparky earn!?

 

[montybaber]

Light guage! I only use stainless these days and regarding pyro I know its still used im afraid its been scrapped from the AM2 i believe

and before this conversation revolves into a monty python sketch im getting my head down

 

[bazza2541]

You'd waste stainless to teach a young fella a lesson?

 

[madeinengland]

where's the 2330 qualification in this place? i thought that's the one you need before doing any others. if it can take up to 2 years to do at this place you might as well go to college for a 3rd of the price. i've just finished my 2330 L3. ok it's taken 3 years to do but i've got 2330 now. you won't have.the 2392 will take me 10 weeks and 17th will take 3 weeks. if you really wanted you could do these 2 courses in the final year of your 2330.i could of done but personally did'nt fancy work all day then college monday,tuesday and wednesday nights. you may be different though. if you can get work with your uncle and you can afford to live on the wage you'll get as a mate then to be hoinest with you i think you've answered your own question.


good luck with what you decide.

 

[MikeThePrinter]

there lies the problem though, if it was a case of being able to do the college for the 2330 then obv it would be worth it for the extra year and saving on the course, but i MUST work on a half decent wage wilst doing it, which is why asking does the fasttrack give the qualifications needed otherwise, the answered on their own seem to easy at the moment, as they all boil down to one thing, MONEY, and if there is no way i could afford to be a mate with time off for college then i'd have to do the fasttrack anyway, but i dont want to waste my time if it wont get me where i wanna be, but sounds slightly appealing if i do it thn gain experience through working as a mate 5 days a week without having to lose any pay to go to college!
same stuff im writing i know, but thanx for providing your opinions and answers as they have left me with some serious choice making to do!

 

[madeinengland]

yeah i understand i really do. i'm not dissimilar to you myself. i'm not in the trade and i've done the 2 nights a week college route and am now at the stage where i ask myself do i leave the job i'm doing to become a 31 yr old boy? can i afford to take the drop in wages? or do i go to college and do 17th regs and 2392 and 2391 and part p etc. the biggest problem i have with it all is this NVQ thing. the jib say you need it to be a''qualified electrician''. but everyone you phone to see about work asks ''do you have the 17th edition and 2391''. not a single mention of NVQ.

 

[bazza2541]

Is the NVQ not a very ambigous thing?
I got my JIB card from my electricians certificate which came off an NVQ (although its a long time ago now) which in turn was granted off a mixture of my Irish and UK qualifications. In my experience the NVQ is not hard to get.

 

[Risteard]

Can you be in Letterkenny for monday at 8am?

I only live about 20 miles from Letterkenny but just started a week-long stint through a recruitment agency today!

 

[Non Sense]

Have you thought of working with your uncle then look to get a modern apprenticeship, this involves 2330 L2 & L3 and NVQ3 and Keyskills the best part the Gov Pays - wish i had known this two yrs ago would have saved me £800 on course fees for the 2330.
Jas