Circuit segregation ?

[jagslaglil]

Hi all,
does anyone know if when running circuits in conduit , whether running a socket circuit and a lighting circuit together ,
is acceptable when passing through the light fittings ( fluorescent)
i personally think it is not as 2 circuits need to be isolated to replace each light and the socket wires would have to be cut and rejoined !!

cheers
Jagslaglil

 

[telectrix]

if i read it right, you're visualising the conduit entering the florry at on end and out the other, with a socket circuit passing through the fitting. if that's so, then it's a big NO. however, if the conduit passes over the florry and the lighting cables come out through a conduit box into the fitting, then it's OK.

 

[jagslaglil]

You are correct,thanks. I have been preaching this for years ! The light fittings are being installed in lift shafts ,vertically,with the conduit entering the top and exiting the bottom. Along with the wiring connecting to the fittings are strappers going to a switch in the pit ( same circuit ) plus a radial socket circuit ( separate CCT ) passing thru all the lights to the pit !
I have been asked to find something in writing to prove this is wrong !
cheers
Jag

 

[dan86]

I have been asked to find something in writing to prove this is wrong !
Jag

just show them Tels post

 

[Engineer54]

You shouldn't even be running the lighting circuit through the lighting fitting let alone the socket circuit!! Who the hell designed this installation method. Apart from anything else the fitting is not deemed as a wireway containment system!! What happens when one of these fittings get's damaged or goes U/S and need replacing?? Light fittings should be tee'd off the conduit raceway not become part of the raceway....

 

[jagslaglil]

Thanks for the replies chaps !
i know it shouldn't be done and practise what I preach ,but a lot of people in the lift industry are doing it this way ! Also a lot of the time it is steel conduit passing in and out of a plastic/fibre light base !
and therefore the conduits between the fittings are not earthed !!!
I was just hoping to find something with a ref. no. to help clarify my points

cheers
Jag

 

[guest119]

Ambient temp in cable calcs?

Boydy

 

[MDJ]

Imagine the nightmare situation for the poor spark attending site to replace a faulty light though with a ring main running through it, a nightmare and a costly job. I would alter the conduit and stick 2 through boxes at 600mm2 centre to centre apart in the run and sit the fluorescent on that myself, do it now and do it right.

 

[Flanders]

You could use Reg 522.2.100 for a start but this only cover heat damage to cable (in this case it would be the cables running close to the ballast , there may be something in a best practice guide i will keep looking

 

[jagslaglil]

Yes, I agree thank you . My biggest argument against is the fact that a lot of the time they are using galv. Conduit and it is isolated from the earthing system by each light fitting !!!
Thanks for replying
Jag

 

[Spoon]

Seems really silly to install it that way.
BS7671 section 528.3.5 states "No cable shall be run in a lift or hoist shaft unless it forms part of the lift installation as defined in BS EN 81-1 series.
I take it you have had a look at BS EN 81-1.

 

[guest119]

559.6.2, 529.3, 341.1

Boydy

 

[Flanders]

Nice one Boydy Good Regs

 

[MDJ]

Aye good call, especially the 529.3, that says it

 

[snowhead]

Seems really silly to install it that way.
BS7671 section 528.3.5 states "No cable shall be run in a lift or hoist shaft unless it forms part of the lift installation as defined in BS EN 81-1 series.
I take it you have had a look at BS EN 81-1.

Lights and sockets are part of the Lift installation, it'd be dark in the shaft without lights..

 

[MDJ]

559.6.2, 529.3, 341.1

Boydy

could add 132.12 to that lot as well lol, I think we have given the OP Food for thought fella :sifone:

 

[Engineer54]

559.6.2, 529.3, 341.1

Boydy

If only i had the BGB to hand!! lol!! I know that 341.1 pertains to maintainability if my memory serves me well!!

 

[MDJ]

If only i had the BRB to hand!! lol!! I know that 341.1 pertains to maintainability if my memory serves me well!!

Send me your e-mail address and I can scan the BGB for you to peruse haha

 

[jagslaglil]

Spot on Boydy 559.6.2.1
many Thanks
Jag

 

[Engineer54]

Send me your e-mail address and I can scan the BGB for you to peruse haha

Already spotted and corrected!! lol!!

 

[MDJ]

For those without a BGB I loaded this up, hope you can see it. 559.6.2.1

 

[Flanders]

For those without a BGB I loaded this up, hope you can see it. 559.6.2.1

Thanks can you just upload the other 462 pages if you got time that looks like a handy book to have

 

[jagslaglil]

Lol Flanders
thanks MDJ that's the one that points it out to me bud !

cheers all hardhard

- - - Updated - - -

Hagd lol

 

[guest119]

Thanks for the replies chaps !
i know it shouldn't be done and practise what I preach ,but a lot of people in the lift industry are doing it this way ! Also a lot of the time it is steel conduit passing in and out of a plastic/fibre light base !
and therefore the conduits between the fittings are not earthed !!!
I was just hoping to find something with a ref. no. to help clarify my points

cheers
Jag

Exposed conductive part!
Needs earthed.

Boydy