Con or not?!? City and Guilds 2391 to 2394 and 2395

[harrison2987]

Hi guys,

What do you lot think the reason is for changing the city and guilds 2391 to 2394 and 2395??

From what i understand the 2391 has now been split into 2 courses and become easier to pass (2394 - Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations and 2395 - Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations).

I know it will also now include amendments aswell, but whats the point in having the 2 courses?

Is this a money maker for the powers that be, and have they made the course easier so more people will attempt it?!?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this!!

Cheers guys

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi guys,

What do you lot think the reason is for changing the city and guilds 2391 to 2394 and 2395??

From what i understand the 2391 has now been split into 2 courses and become easier to pass (2394 - Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations and 2395 - Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations).

I know it will also now include amendments aswell, but whats the point in having the 2 courses?

Is this a money maker for the powers that be, and have they made the course easier so more people will attempt it?!?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this!!

Cheers guys

well i dont know but as i see it the old 1391 will carry more weight...

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Its (the 2391) is like the autograph of someone thats passed away.... no longer available! Therefore perhaps more valuable.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Its (the 2391) is like the autograph of someone thats passed away.... no longer available! Therefore perhaps more valuable.

well i wouldn`t swap mine for this new 2889/29092 thingy...whatever the hell it is...

 

[Amp David]

2391 or 2394/5, who knows.

This topic will end up running like the good old only JIB electricians should be able to register and all that.

 

[barneybhoy]

I wouldn't say it's much easier to pass, I've just sat the 2395 practical and written exams about a month ago, I found the written paper a lot tougher and tight for time than any of the 2391 papers I tried. Also the practical has faults introduced to the circuits and photographs some with various faults some with none, that all had to be correctly identified and coded
Some of the photos took a bit of thinking, also there's an online exam too. They may have split it to make more money but they certainly haven't made it any easier

 

[harrison2987]

How come you didn't complete the 2391 if you started it?

The practical for the 2391 had faults aswell but not the photographs. Have you done both 2394 and 2395?

 

[harrison2987]

I wouldn't say it's much easier to pass, I've just sat the 2395 practical and written exams about a month ago, I found the written paper a lot tougher and tight for time than any of the 2391 papers I tried. Also the practical has faults introduced to the circuits and photographs some with various faults some with none, that all had to be correctly identified and coded
Some of the photos took a bit of thinking, also there's an online exam too. They may have split it to make more money but they certainly haven't made it any easier

How come you didn't complete the 2391 if you started it?

The practical for the 2391 had faults aswell but not the photographs. Have you done both 2394 and 2395?

 

[D Skelton]

Well as someone who has done both the 2391 and the 2394/5 I can confirm that in my personal opinion, the latter was the hardest. If I personally had to employ someone and had to choose between two equally qualified and experienced electricians in every area, both essentially exactly the same but one with the 2391 and one with the 2394/5, I would have to lean towards choosing the one with the 2394/5 just because I know through my own experience the difference. I passed my 2391 almost straight after finishing college with a mark of 86% and even then I found it to be a breeze, I passed my 2394 and 2395 at the start of this year and I struggled with one or two on the 2395 written. I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%, not good in my opinion. To be fair though, some of the questions are worded rather oddly. Even still, I don't believe in any way that this qual separates the wheat from the chaff, too many 5WWs out there passing them. Equally as baffling is that the pass rate is based on prior performance. Last year, the pass mark required for the 2395 written was 65%, this year it was 55%?!?!? The 2391 at the time I took it required only 50% correct answers in the exam! This to me says that even though only 30% of electricians go on to pass the 2391/2395 first time, out of that 30%, potentially they only know 50% of what they should!

Given the previously mentioned situation, two sparks, one job. If one had the 2391 or 2395 and the other didn't, instead they had the 2396... Well, the choice would be an easy one for me. The 2391 and/or 2395 are in the same boat as the 2382 to me. Given enough retakes, any old muppet can pass them.

That's my two cents anyway

 

[barneybhoy]

I didn't start the 2391, I just used the exam papers to practice for the 2395, there's no 2395 papers available yet as its still a relatively new exam. I haven't done the 2394 yet
I'm not saying that the 2395 is harder than the 2391, just that it's not much easier

 

[D Skelton]

there's no 2395 papers available yet as its still a relatively new exam.

There are, you just need to look in the right places

Not that I'm for a minute suggesting that you cheat!!!

 

[harrison2987]

Well as someone who has done both the 2391 and the 2394/5 I can confirm that in my personal opinion, the latter was the hardest. If I personally had to employ someone and had to choose between two equally qualified and experienced electricians in every area, both essentially exactly the same but one with the 2391 and one with the 2394/5, I would have to lean towards choosing the one with the 2394/5 just because I know through my own experience the difference. I passed my 2391 almost straight after finishing college with a mark of 86% and even then I found it to be a breeze, I passed my 2394 and 2395 at the start of this year and I struggled with one or two on the 2395 written. I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%, not good in my opinion. To be fair though, some of the questions are worded rather oddly. Even still, I don't believe in any way that this qual separates the wheat from the chaff, too many 5WWs out there passing them. Equally as baffling is that the pass rate is based on prior performance. Last year, the pass mark required for the 2395 written was 65%, this year it was 55%?!?!? The 2391 at the time I took it required only 50% correct answers in the exam! This to me says that even though only 30% of electricians go on to pass the 2391/2395 first time, out of that 30%, potentially they only know 50% of what they should!

Given the previously mentioned situation, two sparks, one job. If one had the 2391 or 2395 and the other didn't, instead they had the 2396... Well, the choice would be an easy one for me. The 2391 and/or 2395 are in the same boat as the 2382 to me. Given enough retakes, any old muppet can pass them.

That's my two cents anyway

What is the difference in content between the 2391 compared with 2394 and 2395?

Am i right in thinking you should do both 2394 and 95 to be classed as fully competent to perform testing and inspection?

And also what was the reason for you taking the 2394 and 95 if you had a 2391? I have a 2391 and want to know what is benefical with having those 2 for me?

 

[shagbite]

Well as someone who has done both the 2391 and the 2394/5 I can confirm that in my personal opinion, the latter was the hardest. If I personally had to employ someone and had to choose between two equally qualified and experienced electricians in every area, both essentially exactly the same but one with the 2391 and one with the 2394/5, I would have to lean towards choosing the one with the 2394/5 just because I know through my own experience the difference.

I passed my 2391 almost straight after finishing college with a mark of 86%

and even then I found it to be a breeze, I passed my 2394 and 2395 at the start of this year and I struggled with one or two on the 2395 written. I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%, not good in my opinion. To be fair though, some of the questions are worded rather oddly. Even still, I don't believe in any way that this qual separates the wheat from the chaff, too many 5WWs out there passing them. Equally as baffling is that the pass rate is based on prior performance. Last year, the pass mark required for the 2395 written was 65%, this year it was 55%?!?!? The 2391 at the time I took it required only 50% correct answers in the exam! This to me says that even though only 30% of electricians go on to pass the 2391/2395 first time, out of that 30%, potentially they only know 50% of what they should!

Given the previously mentioned situation, two sparks, one job. If one had the 2391 or 2395 and the other didn't, instead they had the 2396... Well, the choice would be an easy one for me. The 2391 and/or 2395 are in the same boat as the 2382 to me. Given enough retakes, any old muppet can pass them.

That's my two cents anyway

where did you get this info' from? when i did mine, they told us that c&g's don't tell you your score - it's just a straight pass or fail.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Well as someone who has done both the 2391 and the 2394/5 I can confirm that in my personal opinion, the latter was the hardest. If I personally had to employ someone and had to choose between two equally qualified and experienced electricians in every area, both essentially exactly the same but one with the 2391 and one with the 2394/5, I would have to lean towards choosing the one with the 2394/5 just because I know through my own experience the difference. I passed my 2391 almost straight after finishing college with a mark of 86% and even then I found it to be a breeze, I passed my 2394 and 2395 at the start of this year and I struggled with one or two on the 2395 written. I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%, not good in my opinion. To be fair though, some of the questions are worded rather oddly. Even still, I don't believe in any way that this qual separates the wheat from the chaff, too many 5WWs out there passing them. Equally as baffling is that the pass rate is based on prior performance. Last year, the pass mark required for the 2395 written was 65%, this year it was 55%?!?!? The 2391 at the time I took it required only 50% correct answers in the exam! This to me says that even though only 30% of electricians go on to pass the 2391/2395 first time, out of that 30%, potentially they only know 50% of what they should!

Given the previously mentioned situation, two sparks, one job. If one had the 2391 or 2395 and the other didn't, instead they had the 2396... Well, the choice would be an easy one for me. The 2391 and/or 2395 are in the same boat as the 2382 to me. Given enough retakes, any old muppet can pass them.

That's my two cents anyway

i passed mine during my first year at college...

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I wouldn't say it's much easier to pass, I've just sat the 2395 practical and written exams about a month ago, I found the written paper a lot tougher and tight for time than any of the 2391 papers I tried. Also the practical has faults introduced to the circuits and photographs some with various faults some with none, that all had to be correctly identified and coded
Some of the photos took a bit of thinking, also there's an online exam too. They may have split it to make more money but they certainly haven't made it any easier

Hi Barneybhoy

Did you actually take the 2391?

I could not comment on the new exams unless I take them. So the man that takes both is the man with a valuable bit of knowledge!

 

[telectrix]

What is the difference in content between the 2391 compared with 2394 and 2395?

Am i right in thinking you should do both 2394 and 95 to be classed as fully competent to perform testing and inspection?

And also what was the reason for you taking the 2394 and 95 if you had a 2391? I have a 2391 and want to know what is benefical with having those 2 for me?

if you hold 2391, there's no need and no point in the 2394/5.

 

[Amp David]

I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%

Was this for the written part or online. We were never given a percentage pass mark

 

[harrison2987]

if you hold 2391, there's no need and no point in the 2394/5.

That was my understanding too Telectrix just wasnt 100% sure, im just curious as to why Skelton has taken all 3??

Seems pointless to me but woundered if there was a valid reason or benefit.

 

[Amp David]

Might had some cash burning a hole in his pocket

 

[harrison2987]

Also what was the reasoning behind City and Guilds ending the 2391 and bringing the other 2 in?

 

[telectrix]

double the numbers. double the cost. kerrching.

 

[D Skelton]

Was this for the written part or online. We were never given a percentage pass mark

Written mate. If you don't pass the online there is something seriously wrong with you lol!

i passed mine during my first year at college...

Oooh, look at yooooou. lol.

where did you get this info' from? when i did mine, they told us that c&g's don't tell you your score - it's just a straight pass or fail.

Lets just say I am very fortunate to know a few people in the know. Nothing worth bragging about but I am much more happy knowing an actual mark, not just a pass or fail.

What is the difference in content between the 2391 compared with 2394 and 2395?

More content in the latter two. Two seperate practicals, two seperate writtens and a shared online multiple choice.

Am i right in thinking you should do both 2394 and 95 to be classed as fully competent to perform testing and inspection?

You don't need any T&I quals to be classed as a competent T&Ier, they just help to prove this when job hunting. I MUST stress this because I know many people who are NOT competent T&Iers and yet hold T&I quals!

And also what was the reason for you taking the 2394 and 95 if you had a 2391? I have a 2391 and want to know what is benefical with having those 2 for me?

Nothing benificial in having any further quals for me whatsoever, I'm the boss. But what it does do for me is it instills me with a great sense of achievement. It also helps that I can get on the courses proper dirt cheap!

I still havent done my 2396 yet and am very much looking forward to doing so even though I know full well that it won't open any doors for me whatsoever!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Also what was the reasoning behind City and Guilds ending the 2391 and bringing the other 2 in?

probably caus it was too much in one go for many...
thing is slowly but surely the training centres offering the C&G2391 were conveniently forgetting they had a duty of care to candidates...that is to say that C&G as part of their awarding the training centre status to deliver the course required training centres to vet candidates for this course to assess their suitability (at that time in their personal development).....stealthily this was `forgotten about`...as it became more about getting arses on seats rather than deliver what was considered by many to be a challanging..but refreshing and rewarding course to take.....
many of the candidates didn`t really stand a chance of passing it....but were let in anyway.....for the £350-400 fee of course....
outragous...

 

[harrison2987]

Thanks for the insight so far guys, good to get different peoples perspective on things!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Written mate. If you don't pass the online there is something seriously wrong with you lol!



Oooh, look at yooooou. lol.



Lets just say I am very fortunate to know a few people in the know. Nothing worth bragging about but I am much more happy knowing an actual mark, not just a pass or fail.



More content in the latter two. Two seperate practicals, two seperate writtens and a shared online multiple choice.



You don't need any T&I quals to be classed as a competent T&Ier, they just help to prove this when job hunting. I MUST stress this because I know many people who are NOT competent T&Iers and yet hold T&I quals!



Nothing benificial in having any further quals for me whatsoever, I'm the boss. But what it does do for me is it instills me with a great sense of achievement. It also helps that I can get on the courses proper dirt cheap!

I still havent done my 2396 yet and am very much looking forward to doing so even though I know full well that it won't open any doors for me whatsoever!

sorry Damian....i couldn`t help it!!

 

[bartkusal]

Written mate. If you don't pass the online there is something seriously wrong with you lol!



Oooh, look at yooooou. lol.



Lets just say I am very fortunate to know a few people in the know. Nothing worth bragging about but I am much more happy knowing an actual mark, not just a pass or fail.



More content in the latter two. Two seperate practicals, two seperate writtens and a shared online multiple choice.



You don't need any T&I quals to be classed as a competent T&Ier, they just help to prove this when job hunting. I MUST stress this because I know many people who are NOT competent T&Iers and yet hold T&I quals!



Nothing benificial in having any further quals for me whatsoever, I'm the boss. But what it does do for me is it instills me with a great sense of achievement. It also helps that I can get on the courses proper dirt cheap!

I still havent done my 2396 yet and am very much looking forward to doing so even though I know full well that it won't open any doors for me whatsoever!

I done my 2391 a year ago and it was the same content as you state in the later two. 2practicals. 2 written, 1 online. Are we not confucing things here. I always new that old 2392 is new 2394 and old 2391 is new 2395 ????

 

[SPARTYKUS]

No exam will ever be harder than the 2391 I took!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No exam will ever be harder than the 2391 I took!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i enjoyed every moment of it.....
like i says, i found it refreshing....
its all about the efforts you put in as well....
too many approach it with a blase attitude...
there were 13 others on the course i did.....most of em were more interested in corry & the bar.....
when i got home it was guidance note three....

 

[D Skelton]

I done my 2391 a year ago and it was the same content as you state in the later two. 2practicals. 2 written, 1 online. Are we not confucing things here. I always new that old 2392 is new 2394 and old 2391 is new 2395 ????

The 2391 is one practical and one written, however the written is split into two sections (A and B) with a total of 2.5 hours between them. Some centres will split these up, but it is still only one written exam.

Are you sure you didn't do the 2392 and 2391 combined course?

 

[Engineer54]

Like many other respected old established institutions, the Tradesmen's C&G Institution has been taken over by Yuppies that have Zero interest in what the Institution has stood and stands for. It's now run as a purely profit making enterprise, and will grasp every opportunity to increase that profit, even if it means lowering set standards to achieve that goal!!

Basically a total disgrace, but while the accountants are allowed run these institutions, nothing is going to change!! The traditional old school administrators have left the building i'm afraid!!

 

[timbobelfast]

I don't know why someone who has the 2391 would even entertain taking the 2394/2395??!! Unless of course they have deep pockets and the spare time!

 

[D Skelton]

Like I said... DIRT CHEAP! for me anyway.

And yeah, I like learning, I like passing stuff, I like to see differences. If someday the 2391 is not looked upon as favourably as the 2394/5 (not that it will happen of course) then I won't have a problem will I, but you will

One other thing I won't dismiss is the idea that one day when my legs and wrists aren't working so well, I might potentially be up for a bit of sessional lecturing. Who knows, maybe it will be an advantage for me to be able to say "I've done both and can give an unbiased opinion on the differences between the two"??? You certainly wouldn't be able to teach the 2394/5 without it, and the 2391 is NOT the same qual.

 

[shagbite]

expect a call from TS4U any minute now.

 

[D Skelton]

expect a call from TS4U any minute now.

They can jog on! If I was skint with the only offer of a job coming from TS4U I'd rather peddle gear than work for those clowns!

I'm an indie guy who supports moral indie training providers and local colleges. I hate corporate scamsters with unbridled passion!

 

[Engineer54]

expect a call from TS4U any minute now.

NO CHANCE!!

Has any of these training centre sponsors ever come back to defend they're corner??.... Nope they know they have nothing to defend, and know they will, in all probably get verbally beaten to a pulp!! lol!! They are here to catch as many pundits as they can, for very little outlay!!

I'll let Biff fire the first broadside if they ever did feel brave enough to come on here, and Oldtimer and Trev to finish them off!!!! lol!!

 

[Amp David]

Written mate. If you don't pass the online there is something seriously wrong with you lol!

Nowt wrong with me, only got one wrong! Its just that everyone else i know who did the written with me at the same place and others at different places were never told a percentage pass, just pass or fail.:blush2:

 

[Sparkie30]

I did both last month not sure about 95 but more confident about 94.
it was funny alot of guys were going on that there confident they did well but they will rebook just in case mind you ive done that aswell lol

waiting for that news now hopefully good news.

 

[D Skelton]

I'll let Biff fire the first broadside if they ever did feel brave enough to come on here, and Oldtimer and Trev to finish them off!!!! lol!!

Eherm! I take it you missed this then???

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...ctrical-forum/78574-military-electrician.html

Biff, Oldtimer and Trev were nowhere to be seen!!!!! Everyone bar shagbite left me all on my own to fight against the big bad man!!

Seems like I was the only one firing broadsides that day! The SOLE defender of the industry! The single rescuing party! The true unsung hero!!!!!

































Not that I'm blowing smoke up my own a$$ or anything

 

[Engineer54]

Eherm! I take it you missed this then???

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...ctrical-forum/78574-military-electrician.html

Biff, Oldtimer and Trev were nowhere to be seen!!!!! Everyone bar shagbite left me all on my own to fight against the big bad man!!

Seems like I was the only one firing broadsides that day! The SOLE defender of the industry! The single rescuing party! The true unsung hero!!!!!

Not that I'm blowing smoke up my own a$$ or anything

I did indeed miss this thread, probably because it sounded too much like previous military electrician threads.....
I saw the expected typical crap about them providing a much needed role as a training provider, and the s*** that those wanting to only work in the domestic sector don't need 3/4/5 years of training. ...Well Done by the way!!


Okay, after reading your posts on this thread, i'll be more than happy for you to be first up to fire the initial broadside. lol!!

 

[bartkusal]

The 2391 is one practical and one written, however the written is split into two sections (A and B) with a total of 2.5 hours between them. Some centres will split these up, but it is still only one written exam.

Are you sure you didn't do the 2392 and 2391 combined course?

Sorry, you right, I got confused myself, I done 2391 exams and 2330 exams the same time more or less, and got mixed up with 2330, because 2330 has 1 day practical I+T, 1 day practical Fault finding, online, written I+T, Written Fault finding, so it was 5 exams from it. 2391 yes its as you say 1 written and 1 practical.

 

[timbobelfast]

Inspection and Testing hasn't changed, just some terminology! It will only be the agencies who will be asking for 94/95. I have came across some agency jobs advertised looking for 16th Edition sparks lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

NO CHANCE!!

Has any of these training centre sponsors ever come back to defend they're corner??.... Nope they know they have nothing to defend, and know they will, in all probably get verbally beaten to a pulp!! lol!! They are here to catch as many pundits as they can, for very little outlay!!

I'll let Biff fire the first broadside if they ever did feel brave enough to come on here, and Oldtimer and Trev to finish them off!!!! lol!!

eh?...
so i dont get a look in then?...

 

[D Skelton]

and the s*** that those wanting to only work in the domestic sector don't need 3/4/5 years of training.

C'mon Eng?! Didn't you know that the domestic regs are different to the commercial regs?! You only need 5 weeks to learn the domestic regs. Get with the times!

 

[amo]

It's all about the money

 

[Engineer54]

eh?...
so i dont get a look in then?...

You can keep battering them from every side!! lol!!

 

[Englishman]

Well as someone who has done both the 2391 and the 2394/5 I can confirm that in my personal opinion, the latter was the hardest. If I personally had to employ someone and had to choose between two equally qualified and experienced electricians in every area, both essentially exactly the same but one with the 2391 and one with the 2394/5, I would have to lean towards choosing the one with the 2394/5 just because I know through my own experience the difference. I passed my 2391 almost straight after finishing college with a mark of 86% and even then I found it to be a breeze, I passed my 2394 and 2395 at the start of this year and I struggled with one or two on the 2395 written. I passed my 2395 with a mark of 72%, not good in my opinion. To be fair though, some of the questions are worded rather oddly. Even still, I don't believe in any way that this qual separates the wheat from the chaff, too many 5WWs out there passing them. Equally as baffling is that the pass rate is based on prior performance. Last year, the pass mark required for the 2395 written was 65%, this year it was 55%?!?!? The 2391 at the time I took it required only 50% correct answers in the exam! This to me says that even though only 30% of electricians go on to pass the 2391/2395 first time, out of that 30%, potentially they only know 50% of what they should!

Given the previously mentioned situation, two sparks, one job. If one had the 2391 or 2395 and the other didn't, instead they had the 2396... Well, the choice would be an easy one for me. The 2391 and/or 2395 are in the same boat as the 2382 to me. Given enough retakes, any old muppet can pass them.

That's my two cents anyway

The 2391 pass mark has never been revealed, nor do you get told of your pass mark so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Dubbo]

The 2391 pass mark has never been revealed, nor do you get told of your pass mark so I don't know what you're talking about.

I was told you can get feed back from C&G about exam you just have to pay a fee for it

 

[D Skelton]

The 2391 pass mark has never been revealed, nor do you get told of your pass mark so I don't know what you're talking about.

Yes, you're quite correct. I am a liar. I shall go now and hang my head in shame.

Idiot.

 

[Englishman]

Yes, you're quite correct. I am a liar. I shall go now and hang my head in shame.

Idiot.

I think you are tbh.

Also, what you say about them changing pass marks is complete crap IMO as it deems the qualification worthless if one year, god knows how many people who get less than, say, 75% all fail yet the next exam, you only need to get 60%.

And nobody would retake an exam for fun or because it's now a bit different.

You're talking out your arse.

 

[Amp David]

The 2391 pass mark has never been revealed, nor do you get told of your pass mark so I don't know what you're talking about.

Just what I was getting at earlier.